Anti Depressants dont work?

[winegirl]

Don't know if any of you heard but the news has been full of reports today that a report from the University of Hull claims that anti depressants, particularly those known as SSRI's do no work, and a placebo pill would have the same effect.

As you can imagine, as someone whose life has been transformed by these drugs, I had to ring in to radio 5 live this morning to say my bit! If you want to hear it i thing you have to wait till tomorrow morning and then click on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/5lnpi/

You can relisten to Victoria Derbyshire's phone ins here.

If anyone has anything to say about these news reports today, come and say it here!!

[cheshire]

Interesting?!

I guess this might be about what 'depression' is defined as being and how they conducted their research ....as it seems to me to be very complex!

I don't know how true this is - it's just anecdotal stuff - what has been said to me in the past...but my GP told me that if you are clinically depressed, then you would often experience a noticeable improvement taking the anti-d medication (although sometimes it takes a while to find what works for you etc.) - she then turned to my husband and said that if he took them, as there was no known 'imbalance'/ signs of depression with him at that time - then the medication would affect him very little, if at all....but of course, no idae how true this is as it has not been put to the test!


In terms of personal experience - medication has really helped me to climb back out of a very deep, dark, black hole.....an interesting thread!

[bam02]

Well I know you were onto this this morning....WG and you are a star!

Isn't is so unsupportive of those in mental distress.

Sending out mixed signals???

Sorry why in Hull?Have they not got something else to think about?

instead of worrying people. Or maybe the NHS has commissioned it to stop people expecting expensive pills???

Sorry - bit annoyed with the research - if talking therapies were more available then maybe the prescription pad would not be reached for!!!

Does anyone remember when the pill was called into question and people stopped taking it and the G.P's were flooded with calls..

I am sure something similar will happen here , except some being so ill will suffer in silence....

[cheshire]

instead of worrying people. Or maybe the NHS has commissioned it to stop people expecting expensive pills???

I agree - usual political agenda/ clap trap to save money!

[Scarlet]

Let's hope this is true, I have a friend also suffering from PNI who has been recently told she will have to wait 18 months for counselling

Thousands more therapists as doubts cast on anti-depressants

More than 3,500 therapists will be made available to help people with depression and anxiety after it emerged anti-depressant medication does not benefit many sufferers.

The government has announced a £170 million investment in talking therapies, which will be used to train 3,600 psychological therapists.

Echoing guidance from the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (Nice), ministers believe talking therapies such as cognitive behavioural therapies are as effective as medication in the short-term and more effective over the long term.

The announcement coincides with a review of clinical trials, published in the Lancet medical journal, which found anti-depressants are little more effective than placebo bills for many sufferers.

Source

www.politics.co.uk/news/opinion-former-index/health/thousands-more-therapists-as-doubts-cast-on-anti-depressants-$1207665.htm

[winegirl]

My GP told me that the meds are not a cure, but life jacket, and if people are having to wait months and months for any sort of other therapy then it makes sense to me to offer people this life jacket in the meantime!

[Scarlet]

I'm just listening to the podcast WG, you did a good job hun......nice to hear your voice

www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/5lnpi/

[winegirl]

Oh my god, I am just listening to it now, i am cringing that i sound like that And what was my point?? Nevr mind, i tried!

[Scarlet]

You sound lovely, have a lovely accent and come across as bubbly which we know you are

[cheshire]

Well done - you honestly did brilliantly and got the message across loud and clear!

I have to say that, I still agree that for some people, at a particular point in time - medication may be one of very few options left . I took mine after 3 years of suffering, preceded by nearly 20 sessions of psychotherapy (which did help)/ course of transactional analysis/ counselling and anxiety management courses. There were circumstantial aspects to my illness - but I really do still believe that had I not had my second baby, I would never have been so severely depressed, for such a long time.

And the antids have helped in these latter stages of recovery - I needed to take them, I am sure.

But - who knows how these things work, it's just my own reflections of my illness!

[Veritee]

Good for you Winegirl, for being so brave and going on the Radio about this.

I too of course heard about this research but as I have no direct experience of theses medications, as you know I did not take any.

So I did not think that I personally could comment from direct experience to the media and not being a medical person, felt I could not from the point of view of what I know others experience to be .

So I am so glad that someone form here did!

However I do know that they have worked for so many women on here and without them, they would have been at a loss as to what to do about their PNI to get themselves into a situation that their symptoms were relieved and they could begin to recover.

I do not know what to make of the research

I wil try to find out more - perhaps even try to get a copy of this research.

I guess from what I have read they were not saying they did not work altogether, that they work for those with severe depression and anxiety, as with those in this position the placebo did nothing but the SSRIs did, but do little for those with mild to moderate difficulties that if the depression was severe, and in this case a placebo did not do anything on its own.

Perhaps if this does prove to be so - and I am sure that now many more people will now do research into this - that PNI is one of those illnesses that is severe and that SSRIs DO work for.

In my non -medical opinion I am inclined to think that even if the research was so, and those with mild to moderate depression would be as well off with a placebo and other therapies including exercise ........

then PNI is an exception to this, as I do not feel personally that PNI is EVER mild to Moderate, it is severe for all although more severe for some and PNI is a depression/illness with some very easily definable symptoms
( not all medical people would agree with this but on her we have certainly identified over the years a set of symptoms that most with PNI get to some degree)

That can be physical as well as emotional and mental and as such it is not a matter of feeling depressed but having a whole range of very definite symptoms that SSRIs can deal with?

The theory is that SSRIs keep your seretonum levels up and that depression alters the levels of seretonum in your brain, so they would not work if you have no chemical imbalance with depression and it is not clear that everyone with depression does - but symptoms with PNI are so pronounced and definite that perhaps most with PNI do have lowered seretonum? and so they work.

The also did not test all SSRIs, just two and women on here are often not on the two they tested.

And many of the others alter the levels not just the neurotransmitter seretonum but a few others as well. For instance SNRIs (Serotonin and Noradrenaline Reuptake Inhibitors) were not tested and many women on here are on theses

This is just my unqualified musings that I had when I heard about this research...... and I do not have a right really to air them as I have no medical qualifications, it is all based on what I have observed from supporting women with PNI and talking to doctors etc.

But what IS clear to me

Is that theses SSRIs Do work for women with PNI, and I guess what I am concerned about this research will justify doctors saving their practice money and prescribing them less??

This could be disastrous for women with PNI, especially those only recently diagnosed as often the first thing they are offered at their own GPs surgery is SSRIs, and this is all they may get - at least at first......

As there is just not the availability of 'talking therapies' just yet and for every women with PNI who need them and not for long enough.

And while I have great confidence in 'talking therapies' as this is what I used successfully when I had PNI, BUT they do not work/suit everyone.

I have known people who theses therapies would never work because their personality finds talking to a stranger alien and unhelpful - and so could never trust it or open up sufficiently.

I feel it only worked for me because I was able to take the therapy on wholeheartedly and with trust that it would work. So maybe even talking therapies were a Placebo, in my case at least, as I expect and trust it would work and so it does.
But this is not so for all by any means.

I so worry about a woman with PNI, who could be suicidal, and or VERY distressed, going to her GP and coming away with NOTHING, except maybe being told to exercise!!!

This could be disastrous for many women in this position - as even at the very least - the medication gives you hope......

I have always said on here, 'do and take what works for you'

You do not have to know why it works- just that it does!

but I think also work for PNI

Just my thoughts.

Veritee

But again it is great you went on the radio WG

[winegirl]

Thanks Scarlet, H and Vee

Yes I agree that for some people depression is more `circumstantial' as opposed to a chemical imbalance, and in these instances these SSRI's will have no or little effect. I knew that for me personally it had to be a chamical imbalance brought on by the birth of my LO as there were no real other issues going on with me to cause how i was feeling.

My concern is that the people who really do need these drugs may stop taking them after hearing these reports which could be absolutely disastorous. Sorry i didnt get a mention of the site on there, they closed the interview before I had chance!

[Scarlet]

Re: this research. Saw that GMTV are doing a beating depression special all next week.

[annatino]

sorry, english is my second language but can anyone explain to me what placebo pill means? what means no better then a placebo pill? thx alot.

[cheshire]

Hi there

Welcome to the sitex

'no better than a placebo pill' means similar to 'no better than eating a cube of sugar' (for example)

A placebo pill is a sort of 'fake' pill used to test the effectiveness of medicines/ medication. Quite often a placebo pill is made from substances like sugar.

In other words, the article is arguing that taking antideps is no more use than taking 'a sugar pill' - (But I personally think the research sample and method will have skewed the results!)

Hopefulx