Post by Veritee on Mar 26, 2005 11:48:54 GMT
I was amused and struck by RW ‘s 'tail of two city's' description of himself as a coping person/survivor/helper or others professionally and otherwise and the ‘shadow’ side of this, I'll have to remember this as I can use it to describe myself. And it focused for me how I operate as a person/helper i.e. on two levels also.
I too was bullied in school too and experienced stuff as a child that left me with lifelong issues - ended in London in the 70s became a professional youth and community worker in Ken Livingstones GLC London so I too was involved in several community campaigns and worked all hours. Felt alive, useful and affirmed for the first time.
There has ( for different reasons from RW as some of you know) always been a shadow side for me however effective I am being in my job or other commitments.
Indeed I was working as a youth worker doing , bordering on the therapeutic, small group work with very distressed young people all the time I had PNI. And I became a youth worker driven by the daemons of my own youth.
I run this site now while struggling with a complete different issue - one of learning to cope with a permanent disability, and fuelled by sadness I feel that the birth and early years of my one child was marred by this awful illness.
So RWs 'two cities' also applies well to me.
I feel it is admirable that RW will wait till he have fully resolved your issues before working to assist others and I agree that you have to have come to some peace (acceptance, to be at a stage you can live with and it does not predominantly infringe on your life daily) with yourself about the issue you will assist people on first.
But on the other hand it is these very issues that drive you (well me at least) to do the work in the first place.
Ie if I had fully resolved everything about being a disaffected young person and coming from a discriminated community, I would not have trained as a youth and community worker and teacher or put in so many hours and commitment or had so many successes ( and some failures) .
I only stopped this work really when I no longer felt driven by the issues and the job was just not worth the grief it cost to continue ( grief not from young people but the sort of stuff teachers have to endure from above ie management, politics and petty internal bullying and competitiveness that actually on a grass routes level sap your energy to actually teach – it is the same now in youth work) .
The same goes for PNI. I no longer have the illness and I no longer have the symptoms and have exposed, have had considerable therapy on and come to an understanding of my feelings about PNI-
but it is the fact of my PNI and the sadness and other feelings I have about having had it, coupled with my issues from my childhood and adolescence around the lack of effective treatment or understanding for mental illness that probably/does drives my spending so many hours, on my own mostly, with no financial reward and indeed funding it myself - running this forum and replying to the several letters and e mails from mums a week and other work voluntary around PNI.
Having been a 'professional' I know that this is frowned upon generally within youth and social work - i.e. to have issues in the area you are working, or even in any areas at all.
But the reality is they we all have issues – and to work effectively and without judgement with people you have to have experienced some issues in your life – it is this ability to relate – put yourself in others shoes) that makes us human.
and indeed I have had my critics on here - and was told very directly by one that I was damaging women by running this site having not resolved everything for myself around PNI and my childhood and even my disability
But if I did not have something to drive my doing this work - the site would never have existed and I certainly would never have put the hours I do into it.
I actually think that this is the same for anyone who works with people on anything which involved sadness and having to have some insight into the issues - That they have to feel it and relate to it in some way and that it still carries resonance for them
or they would be just bored and disinterested and even paid would probably not do it
Indeed I only stopped youth work when I job I had been so engaged with and fascinating became so boring I could hardly bare to put in the hours I was supposed to.
And while I am 'driven' to run this site and am never bored or disinterested in any of the issues around PNI I can see that without my own issues fuelling my interest, I could become disinterested.
But mostly no one is out-front about what is driving them, I have worked with many social workers and youth and community workers who were definitely driven - all the effective ones are, but they do not openly admit it, in fact would strongly deny it but as a colleague and friend I got to know.
But I always have been very open about this and therefore set myself up for critics - usually those who because of their own stuff feel insecure or disturbed at the thought of someone who is openly saying they have issues too but have reached the point of insight and want to help others - having any influence on others
In fact I have wrestled with this dilemma for many months and your post has helped me to focus on it and move on
This is not just my personal issue a great problem for me in trying to get anyone to help me run this site and I do really need a rest now and then.
But many say that when they are recovered they will help out , but when they are they have no motivation or personal need to put in the commitment necessary, so even if they try they soon drop out , because they no longer have anything ‘driving’ their interest.
I do not mean they do not have sympathy for women currently going thorough this but that it takes more than this to want to put in the hours working on the site takes and to constantly re- visit your PNI (which is unavoidable) as most once well just feel the need to put that awful phrase of there lives behind them.
If I have women still suffering to help, they are marvellous , and committed and certainly driven to help others, but I have found not emotionally as resilient yet to withstand the emotional stuff that often happens on here and especially the criticism that every helper on here is subject to at some time or another.
If you work with people even just as a faceless moderator on a forum, in a way you are setting yourself up to be knocked down and some people scrutinise and pull to bits your every response almost looking fro something to criticise.
Personally I think this is something to do with the person who attacks you feeling scared of the amount of power you have to affect you and by attacking you lessen this power. I have been attacked so many times over the years of running this and other forums and on a very personal level which is hurtful and other who have helped out also have had this.
-But in my experience you always get this when working with people on sensitive issues and it is very very difficult to take this criticism when you are doing what you do in your own time, for no reward beyond feeling you may have helped someone through this awful illness and when you are still suffering yourself, you do not have the resources or resilience to fall back on you would have when recovered.
I guess it is unfair to expect anyone to have to deal with this sort of attack ever.
All my helpers on the forum have been great and if anyone else wants to try it I am happy to consider them giving it a go - but I do feel guilt at exposing still ill women to the possibility of personal criticism and perhaps stuff they find hard to deal with.
It should not matter why they are doing it or what their personal issues or personality is – they are offering their own time and energy and do not deserve to be criticised or accused and this is not a ‘professional’ form but a mutual/self help group and I feel that these sorts of groups have a lot to offer in conjunction with services run by professional organisations.
So this is where what RW relates to this forum.
I need help – indeed the sort of help you and others may be able to offer.
But I find when those who offer it feel they are ready – they no longer feel driven to put this energy in!!!
And to get assistance from people who are still very much going through their own stuff, means that they usually can provide ace support as they know exactly what women are going through, but sort of puts them in the firing line when they are vulnerable and this is the last thing the deserve or need.
I have found this very difficult myself so I know how it must be for them as I could never have taken it when I was ill.
I think that what is needed is as well as Moderatorss who are currently users of the forum we need a few helpers( either as Mods or advisors) who have reached the delicate balance of being over PNI or issues around PNI but still have the drive due to a desire for not wanting others to suffer as they did as they still have sadness or other feelings around having suffered it at all.
But ex PNI sufferers/survivors or these affected by PNI in another way who are at that state of balance – are very hard to find.
I don’t suppose I will solve this,
But all I can say if there is anyone out there perhaps recovered now for a few years but still have the motivation to support current sufferers on here- please consider giving you time to help with this forum.
All the best
Veritee
I too was bullied in school too and experienced stuff as a child that left me with lifelong issues - ended in London in the 70s became a professional youth and community worker in Ken Livingstones GLC London so I too was involved in several community campaigns and worked all hours. Felt alive, useful and affirmed for the first time.
There has ( for different reasons from RW as some of you know) always been a shadow side for me however effective I am being in my job or other commitments.
Indeed I was working as a youth worker doing , bordering on the therapeutic, small group work with very distressed young people all the time I had PNI. And I became a youth worker driven by the daemons of my own youth.
I run this site now while struggling with a complete different issue - one of learning to cope with a permanent disability, and fuelled by sadness I feel that the birth and early years of my one child was marred by this awful illness.
So RWs 'two cities' also applies well to me.
I feel it is admirable that RW will wait till he have fully resolved your issues before working to assist others and I agree that you have to have come to some peace (acceptance, to be at a stage you can live with and it does not predominantly infringe on your life daily) with yourself about the issue you will assist people on first.
But on the other hand it is these very issues that drive you (well me at least) to do the work in the first place.
Ie if I had fully resolved everything about being a disaffected young person and coming from a discriminated community, I would not have trained as a youth and community worker and teacher or put in so many hours and commitment or had so many successes ( and some failures) .
I only stopped this work really when I no longer felt driven by the issues and the job was just not worth the grief it cost to continue ( grief not from young people but the sort of stuff teachers have to endure from above ie management, politics and petty internal bullying and competitiveness that actually on a grass routes level sap your energy to actually teach – it is the same now in youth work) .
The same goes for PNI. I no longer have the illness and I no longer have the symptoms and have exposed, have had considerable therapy on and come to an understanding of my feelings about PNI-
but it is the fact of my PNI and the sadness and other feelings I have about having had it, coupled with my issues from my childhood and adolescence around the lack of effective treatment or understanding for mental illness that probably/does drives my spending so many hours, on my own mostly, with no financial reward and indeed funding it myself - running this forum and replying to the several letters and e mails from mums a week and other work voluntary around PNI.
Having been a 'professional' I know that this is frowned upon generally within youth and social work - i.e. to have issues in the area you are working, or even in any areas at all.
But the reality is they we all have issues – and to work effectively and without judgement with people you have to have experienced some issues in your life – it is this ability to relate – put yourself in others shoes) that makes us human.
and indeed I have had my critics on here - and was told very directly by one that I was damaging women by running this site having not resolved everything for myself around PNI and my childhood and even my disability
But if I did not have something to drive my doing this work - the site would never have existed and I certainly would never have put the hours I do into it.
I actually think that this is the same for anyone who works with people on anything which involved sadness and having to have some insight into the issues - That they have to feel it and relate to it in some way and that it still carries resonance for them
or they would be just bored and disinterested and even paid would probably not do it
Indeed I only stopped youth work when I job I had been so engaged with and fascinating became so boring I could hardly bare to put in the hours I was supposed to.
And while I am 'driven' to run this site and am never bored or disinterested in any of the issues around PNI I can see that without my own issues fuelling my interest, I could become disinterested.
But mostly no one is out-front about what is driving them, I have worked with many social workers and youth and community workers who were definitely driven - all the effective ones are, but they do not openly admit it, in fact would strongly deny it but as a colleague and friend I got to know.
But I always have been very open about this and therefore set myself up for critics - usually those who because of their own stuff feel insecure or disturbed at the thought of someone who is openly saying they have issues too but have reached the point of insight and want to help others - having any influence on others
In fact I have wrestled with this dilemma for many months and your post has helped me to focus on it and move on
This is not just my personal issue a great problem for me in trying to get anyone to help me run this site and I do really need a rest now and then.
But many say that when they are recovered they will help out , but when they are they have no motivation or personal need to put in the commitment necessary, so even if they try they soon drop out , because they no longer have anything ‘driving’ their interest.
I do not mean they do not have sympathy for women currently going thorough this but that it takes more than this to want to put in the hours working on the site takes and to constantly re- visit your PNI (which is unavoidable) as most once well just feel the need to put that awful phrase of there lives behind them.
If I have women still suffering to help, they are marvellous , and committed and certainly driven to help others, but I have found not emotionally as resilient yet to withstand the emotional stuff that often happens on here and especially the criticism that every helper on here is subject to at some time or another.
If you work with people even just as a faceless moderator on a forum, in a way you are setting yourself up to be knocked down and some people scrutinise and pull to bits your every response almost looking fro something to criticise.
Personally I think this is something to do with the person who attacks you feeling scared of the amount of power you have to affect you and by attacking you lessen this power. I have been attacked so many times over the years of running this and other forums and on a very personal level which is hurtful and other who have helped out also have had this.
-But in my experience you always get this when working with people on sensitive issues and it is very very difficult to take this criticism when you are doing what you do in your own time, for no reward beyond feeling you may have helped someone through this awful illness and when you are still suffering yourself, you do not have the resources or resilience to fall back on you would have when recovered.
I guess it is unfair to expect anyone to have to deal with this sort of attack ever.
All my helpers on the forum have been great and if anyone else wants to try it I am happy to consider them giving it a go - but I do feel guilt at exposing still ill women to the possibility of personal criticism and perhaps stuff they find hard to deal with.
It should not matter why they are doing it or what their personal issues or personality is – they are offering their own time and energy and do not deserve to be criticised or accused and this is not a ‘professional’ form but a mutual/self help group and I feel that these sorts of groups have a lot to offer in conjunction with services run by professional organisations.
So this is where what RW relates to this forum.
I need help – indeed the sort of help you and others may be able to offer.
But I find when those who offer it feel they are ready – they no longer feel driven to put this energy in!!!
And to get assistance from people who are still very much going through their own stuff, means that they usually can provide ace support as they know exactly what women are going through, but sort of puts them in the firing line when they are vulnerable and this is the last thing the deserve or need.
I have found this very difficult myself so I know how it must be for them as I could never have taken it when I was ill.
I think that what is needed is as well as Moderatorss who are currently users of the forum we need a few helpers( either as Mods or advisors) who have reached the delicate balance of being over PNI or issues around PNI but still have the drive due to a desire for not wanting others to suffer as they did as they still have sadness or other feelings around having suffered it at all.
But ex PNI sufferers/survivors or these affected by PNI in another way who are at that state of balance – are very hard to find.
I don’t suppose I will solve this,
But all I can say if there is anyone out there perhaps recovered now for a few years but still have the motivation to support current sufferers on here- please consider giving you time to help with this forum.
All the best
Veritee
