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Post by Bear24 on Jul 23, 2004 5:15:34 GMT
Hi everyone
I am new here but glad I found this forum as, while I wouldn't wish this illness on anyone, it's comforting to know that others have gone through it and recovered.
I have been on meds for PNI for nearly 4 months now. I feel like I am recovering from the depression, but the intrusive thoughts (which I now realize from reading these posts are alot more common with PNI that I thought) are still bothering me.
While they are not as bad as when I first began suffering from PNI, they are still in my head more than I can bare - I just want them to go away and be back to my old self again!
I have been told that intrusive thoughts are often the hardest sympton to treat, and can linger for some time after the symptons of depression have disappeared.
I am now on 200mgs of Zoloft and , despite what I have been told, I am starting to lose hope that I will ever get rid of them. I have read posts where women found they went away after a few weeks on meds - why is it taking me so long?
I am so frustrated and angry about this and getting so tired of dealing with it. Please tell me there is some light at the end of the tunnel and I won't struggle with this forever.
Thanks for listening Bear24
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Post by Sarah 04 on Jul 23, 2004 6:07:55 GMT
Hello Bear 24
Welcome to the site, you'll find lots of help and reassurance here from women who really understand what you are going through. I remember when I found the site for the first time, back in March and the relief I felt that I wasn't some sort of freak and that what I was suffering from was an illness. I have had PNI since January, although the Doctor has never called it that, I had to do my own self diagnosis in the end!!! I haven't really been depressed as such, although I do realise that depression can come in different disguises i.e. anxiety, which I did suffer from. The reason I was so anxious was the horrendous, intrusive, compulsive, obssessive thoughts I was getting. I have had to really peservere with my medication (read my recent reply to Annie). I have been taking venlafaxine for 28 weeks now and have had to have the dose gradually increased four times to help deal with the thoughts. I do see a marked improvement during the middle of my cycle but I have also seen a pattern emerging of my mood deteriorating during my period and afterwards (that's when my thoughts are at their strongest). One thing I have learnt with this illness is that you need to be patient and kind to yourself (easier said than done when you're having terrible thoughts, I know). However, it does become a vicious circle because the harder time you give yourself over the thoughts, the worse you'll feel and the thoughts become more prolific. It is NOT your fault that you are suffering from these thoughts, you have an illness. I have found that detaching myself from the thoughts does help (once again easier said than done) but as I have battled through this illness, I have slowly become stronger (especially knowing that I am not on my own with the thoughts) and a little more defiant. I have started to slow down and stopped trying to be superwoman/mum, I find that if I push myself too hard and go above my BASELINE (see reply to Annie) then my thoughts go shooting through the roof. I try to give myself treats, rather than punishing myself. I don't watch hardly any tv because my thoughts are made worse by outside influences, I don't listen to the news on the radio. I don't read newspapers only trashy magazines and when I do have some time to myself which isn't that often I just do what I want to do, whether it's having a bath, going for a walk, reading a book or just flicking through OK magazine to see what Jordan and Peter Andre are up to now!! I suppose that I have now come to accept my illness, before I thought that if I accepted it I was giving in to it but that's not the case. I am just going with the flow, allowing this period of my life to pass by without getting myself too stressed or uptight. Everytime I start dwelling and getting resentful that I've got this pig of an illness then I end up in a negative spiral where once again the thoughts kick in, so I suppose I try to float through it as much as possible. It hasn't been easy, it still isn't, there's been so many times when I thought I was getting better and then my mind would come up with a new thought that I would obssess about and I'd end up crashing again. However, each time I have just about managed to pick myself up, eventually and start again. Although I am now beginning to realise that each time, I have moved a few steps forward and that I am getting closer to that light at the end of the tunnel (a bit of a cliche I know but it does feel like you are in a long dark tunnel at the beginning of the illness but as you make your way through it, you do start to see the light at the end, it's very weak at first admittedly but it does get brighter).
I'm going to have to go now, I think I've used enough cliches for one day!! You take care and keep us posted on how you are getting on.
lots of love
Sarah xxx
I hope this helps. Like I said you are not on your own and I know that we will get better because of other women who I have met through this site who have been in the same position as you and I and have come out the other side, so hang on in there.
Take care
Sarah xxx
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Post by Annie on Jul 23, 2004 8:32:08 GMT
Hi bear 24!
Just want to assure you that you are not alone. I too have been suffering with horrible thoughts since April.If you read my thread 'going mad'-don't know which page it is on-then you will see how my illness has progressed.Part of my problem I suppose is that I don't really believe I am ill, I feel like I am a terrible person now and that I will be like this for the rest of my life.I can't see how I can ever be back to my normal self again after this. So you see I understand your agony.I suppose what we all need is a special PNI pill to take everything away!! Feel free to ask me anything if it will make you feel better because I know it really helps to hear that other people have similar symptoms!
Take care
Annie xx
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Post by Sarah 04 on Jul 23, 2004 10:40:08 GMT
Annie, just read your reply.
It seems to me that it is quite common for women with PNI to not accept that they are ill. Like I said to you before after I visited the medium!! (as you do!!) ,I thought that I didn't have PNI that I was possessed by an evil force. I remember reading other womens threads on this website thinking that I was different to them because I didn't have PNI, I was just an evil, nasty person and would always be like that. Now the rational part of my brain that kicks in every now and then and seems to be kicking even more these days knows this is a load of b*ll*cks!!!! because I am a kind, caring, considerate person who adores her family and wouldn't harm a fly. It was if one part of my brain accepted that I had PNI but it was battling against another part of my brain that was distorted with PNI. I noticed that Lainey said that it took her a while to believe she had PNI. Veritee has also confirmed that this is a common trait amongst PNI sufferers.
I just wanted to give you a bit of reassurance that I used to think that I didn't have PNI infact I still do sometimes if I'm having a bad time of it but I just have to accept and dismiss it that it's PNI playing tricks with my mind. I remember what the Vicar said to me (yes, I went to speak to the Vicar who married me thought I was such an evil person I needed to speak to a man of the cloth who might be able to be help). He did to a point, although he doesn't know much about PNI, anti depressants etc, etc, bless!! but he tried his best!!) He said that we can't help our thoughts it's our actions that matter. Annie, you are a good person because you have recognised that you hate these thoughts, they are not part of you, they are part of the illness, which as you continue with your treatment will go and leave you with your old self again. I can't wait for that day because I can tell from your threads that you really are a lovely person and deserve to be left alone to enjoy your family and I believe that one day you will. Perhaps we should have this conversation in a year's time and compare notes on how far we have come and how much further down the road we are in our battle against PNI.
Take care, thinking of you,
Sarah xxx
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ant
Full member
24, recently divorced, mum to two gorgeous boys, 4 and 1. suffered pni after both.
Posts: 87
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Post by ant on Jul 24, 2004 20:32:34 GMT
hello bear24, annie and sarah. the thoughts are, for me, the worst part of this horrible illness. at one point i hated myself so much that i nearly left my 2 sons in the shopping trolley in the supermarket car park, cos i'd convinced myself that i was such a bad evil person that they deserved to be found by a better mummy than me, which is silly, and i know that, and i'm so glad that i didn't walk away from them, even though part of me just wanted to disappear, to die, cos i thought everyone would be so much better off without me. one way i've found of dealing with these thoughts is whenever i think something that i know to be truly irrational then i picture like a cartoon character of an imp on my shoulder whispering the nonsense in my ear, that it's not really me thinking cos the real me knows better, and i pretend i'm shaking it away and i tell it to shut up. you probably think that is insane, it sounds nuts, but when i picture this it makes me smile and i concentrate on this naughty creature disappearing in a cloud of smoke and then make myself busy doing something, with the kids or round the house so that i avoid thinking about whatever it was that was bothering me. it doesn't always work, and i suppose if anyone on here is anything like me then they are probably better at giving advice than following it themselves but like sarah says, we need to go with the flow, accept that the thoughts are part of our illness and try not to push ourselves. easier said than done, but let's take each day as it comes, and if i have a really bad day now i'm trying hard to concentrate on the next one being better. good luck everyone. big hugs to you all. love, ant
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Post by Bear24 on Jul 25, 2004 11:54:57 GMT
Sarah, Annie & Ant
Thank you so much for your kind words of support. My husband is very caring and supportive about this but it really helps to be able to chat with people who know first hand what I am going through.
What I don't understand is why my thoughts are centred around one thing. Other irrational thoughts can come into my mind but I can dismiss them easily, so why is it I can't dismiss these particular thoughts?
Annie, I am the same as you in regards to the illness. Sometimes I feel so ashamed and evil and find it hard to believe that it is an illness causing these thoughts. Thankfully my husband and pyschiatrist constantly reassure me that I am a good person and mother, and that I have nothing to be ashamed of. My husband even made me a card from my son for Mother's Day saying that I was the best mum he could ever have and that I make him feel like the most important person in the world. My husband knows the kind of thoughts going through my mind so I am so thankful that he is standing by me through this. He always tells me that he knows the person I am and that I could never do anything to hurt anyone and that I will get over this. I know I am very lucky to have him - I have read other messages where men couldn't deal with their partners' illness and I feel so very bad for those women.
Another thing I am very thankful for is that at least the PNI hasn't distanced me from my son. I love him so much and despite this horrible illness I have not once regretted having him and am hoping to have more children once I am over this.
Once again, thank you for being there for me and I will keep you updated on my progress.
Hope all is going well you all.
Bear24 xxx
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Post by Carol on Jun 28, 2005 23:35:29 GMT
:-*Hi everyone!
All I can say is give it time! I have had p.n.i. twice and the bad thoughts can take a 'very' long time to go away and when they do they are replaced by guilt for having them in the first place! P.n.i. is a dreadful illness that can cause a lot of hurt to those who suffer from it. It can last a very long time, but I promise you, you will get better! Plus you will be a stronger person having overcome it! Take help when you can get it and don't beat yourself up about having bad thoughts, they are only thoughts afterall so you are one step ahead of those of us who have actually acted upon them! Be a survivor! Don't give in to this f *****g illness! Sorry but I'm feeling pretty crap myself at the moment but having survived p.n.i. twicw, I know I can survive it again! Good Luck. Big Hugs, Carol X:)
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Post by Veritee on Jun 29, 2005 18:19:31 GMT
Hi Carol
And welcome to the forum
I nearly missed your post here! And you are right in what you say.
I read what you said and I assume that you feel you have acted on your thoughts in some way?
I do not want to give the impression that we are all people who have thoughts but always behave absolutely right toward our children despite this and do not have any regrets or fears or guilt about how we have been to wards our children and families.
I for one have many regrets about how I was to wards my baby and continued to go over the top until she was about 5.
I may not have actually physically touched my child but this was because my thoughts were not about doing anything hurtful but not life threatening - I only had thoughts of doing her seriously harm or actually killing her - so the absolutely only reason I did not lose it and actually hit or otherwise touch her when I had PNI was not because I did not want to - but because I just did not dare go anywhere near her when I felt out of control because I feel there was a read danger I would seriously damage her if I did.
So I did other things - at times I shouted and screamed at a defenseless baby - I threw things and smashed things all at times aways from her - up in my stables or in the fields, but I also did this in the house and I know I frightened her .
I would also shout at her for hours - so I too ave acted on the thoughts really - in that I did not do what the thoughts were about , but I acted out in from=nt of her and at times deliberately to hurt my precious daughter.
They were only thoughts - but they did have a consequence in my behavior toward my child.
I feel I had to say this because if this was to be your only visit to this forum I did not want you to take away from this site that you might be the only person who when you had PNI did stuff you wish you had not or may regret - and while I can only speak for myself I have to say that even on a forum like this where we feel we can be more honest than we feel we can otherwise can be about our illness
- even here we do not always tell everyone everything. There are some things I have never to this day told anyone - not even my partner. They are not necessarily things about actions I took when I had PNI but all I am saying is that PNI is so painful and the things you do, think and say so painful, that even with all the will in the world to discuss it openly in order that you can help others ( this is my position) not to feel so alone - their are still things you just can not say and can not tell.
I think in one way or another, even though we might not have carried out the terrible things our thoughts were of at times - most of us do regret things that happened because of PNI, when we lost it with our children or partners or other family when we had PNI. And we know that this was the PNI talking - that we would never have acted like this or done this if we had not been so ill.
It is a terrible thing to have to look back on - while for me it was several years ago I can still at my worse moments look at my daughter and remember how I behaved, what I thought and what I wanted to do - and want to cry!
I so not usually say this as I want to focus for women currently with PNI on getting well - but I was worried that you may go away from here feeling that you may be alone in doing things you now regret.
If this is not so - please ignore what I have said as supporting people on here is often a stab in the dark.
I often only have one phase or sentence to focus on to see what someones issues are and in this case I focused on
'Take help when you can get it and don't beat yourself up about having bad thoughts, they are only thoughts after all so you are one step ahead of those of us who have actually acted upon them!
you are not alone in this, and I did not want you to go away from here thinking you were alone - but this is very difficult to talk about - even on here.
I hope you feel able to post on this site again.
As someone who has survived PNI twice - your experience could be invaluable to others !
Also you said:
Sorry but I'm feeling pretty crap myself at the moment but having survived p.n.i. twice, I know I can survive it again'
Does this mean you now have it a third time or are pregnant or are thinking of having another baby?
If so their is no reason why you 'should ' get it again that I know about - but we would like to support you on here if we can help you.
This is a mutual support forum and we support each other
all the best
Veritee
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Post by Aussie Girl on Oct 8, 2005 9:12:15 GMT
Hi Iam a 31 year old Aussie Girl and thank god i found this web site. Reading the above postings has reassured me I'm not an awful person or that I'm not going nuts. I have a supportive husband and 2 wonderful boys. I believe i have post natal illness even though my shrink thinks i only have a anxiety disorder. I cannot express how reassured i feel when i read that others are suffering this dreadful illness. Today has been a bad day and at times i thought my family would be better off without me, i start to believe these unwanted thoughts are me instead of part of the illness. I use a policeman with a baton that hits the unwanted thought into the sky (sounds silly) but makes me believe i have some control. i have been on Metazapine for 3 weeks and wondering if it working at all, i have just had it raised to 60 god i hope it kicks in soon. This web site may just have saved me. To all of the brave women on this site I'm thinking of you and wish you all the best. Especially you Carol know that i know exactly what your talking about and we are great mummies. Take care Aussie Girl
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Post by Veritee on Oct 8, 2005 9:53:43 GMT
Hi Aussie Girl Welcome to this forum - the site is based in the UK but we have other Aussie Girls who use the forum - you must have missed Natalie from Aus yesterday -perhaps because you posted your first post not on the introduction thread? Why don't you introduce yourself there and I am sure you will get lots more replies? I have started a thread for you here:http://veritee.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=intro&action=display&n=1&thread=3427 As for your diagnosis, many women on here have been diagnosed not with PNI, but with various labels ranging from acute anxious depression, severe depressive psychosis, anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, PTSD and many more other than PNI. Can I ask you how old your children are - because4 their seems to be a reluctance by some health professionals to believe that you can have PNI if you are diagnosed over 6 months since a birth or that PNI lasts more than 6 to 12 months maximum, also it does not seem to be recognized that for most people with PNI their main symptoms are not depression at all, but extreme anxiety, panic attacks, obsessive or intrusive thoughts, guilt and self blame, fear of illness or physical symptoms that lead you to believe your are seriously physically ill, sleeplessness - the list goes on -- but depression is way down the list of symptoms that concern us the most. Also to want to just walk out on your family is a very common experience - I would have this daily for about 2 years - I am still with my family and happy, 16 years after the birth and 14 years on from these thoughts and the horrible thoughts that I would kill my baby. as what you put will be seen more there but if you do not want to post on it - this is fine - just stay here or there is no pressure to post at all. As for your medication, Metazapine, I think you mean 'mirtazapine' as I have never heard of Metazapine , but there could be different names in OZ? see: www.medicinenet.com/mirtazapine/article.htm Apparently does take 3 to 4 weeks to kick in - others on here have had it, but it is a different formulation from most of the Medication that women with PNI are usually given ie mirtazapine is an older type of anti De called a tetracyclic antidepressant it still has the effect of increasing the amount of noradrenaline and serotonin in the brain. But they do it in a different way from the type of medication now most commonly prescribed to women with PNI - which are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), the most well known of these being fluoxetine which is Prozac. These work very well for most women with PNI, although most prefer to prescribe some of the others in this SSRI class rather than Prozac which is no thought to be quite as effective for those with PNI who are anxious, but it does work well with obsessive-compulsive symptoms. Anyway what I am saying in a round about way is the medication you are on does work in a specific way and it does not suit everyone. So give it another week or so , but by 4 to 5 weeks if it is going to do anything it would have defiantly by then, so if you still have no relief of your symptoms, go back to your doctor and ask to try a SSRI type or at least ask to try something else. I hope to hear from you again All the best Veritee
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