Is it PNI?

[Veritee]

Hi Stephy and Everyone

Just wanted to add my agreement to what Susie said about making an effort to get better and do things, she is totally right or at least this is my experience also.

On the subject of making an effort to get better - I really do not think this works.

I have tried it and I have listened to others as they tried it and I do not think putting further pressure on yourself like this is very helpful.

All it really is (for give me if this does not apply to anyone else, but it is how it seems to me) is another way to be hard on yourself i.e. it must be somehow my fault I have this thing so I must make and effort to get better.

The best thing you can do to get better is to be kind to yourself - do not expect too much.

Go out or participate in social activities only when you are likely to enjoy them and when it will be a positive experience. Do what you can to look after your children, cook meals, housework etc but if you are lucky enough to have help and do not feel up to it that day take that help, otherwise do not worry about standard too much, when you are better you will have plenty of time for your home I could go on about specifics but what I mean is be kind to yourself - make allowances you would for someone else in your position.

This does not mean that you just give up and do nothing - it does help to do things that make you feel better. For instance if going for a run, going to the gym or drinking more water, or taking more walks, eating better food, or going out socially or whatever you genuinely enjoy and feel better for it , then do these things when you can or want to - but if they become just another chore, a self punishment, then forget it,

If there is an epiphany to tell you exactly what to do to get better it is - be kind to yourself, to not have expectations you can not meet at present, take the treatment offered, talk about how you feel to anyone who will listen and who you trust.

But there is no epiphany and to a degree you will get better eventually anyway. It is often said that PNI is self limiting.
However I am no longer so sure about that but it does seem that for all, as your children get older, unless you have more young ones, even the most stuck PNI does get better.

Whatever the cause, hormones, birth shock, overwhelmed by being a parent no one really knows, Its continuation does seem to be related to having vulnerable children to care for that need your care just to continue to exist.

However medication, counselling, support, being kind to yourself, talking and sharing your story, not only can short cut the illness so that many find they are better long before their children are grown up enough to be able to look after themselves, but the main thing is that having these things minimises the damage to you and your family relationships and your children caused by having PNI the consequences of which can continue long after you have recovered from the PNI.

I have waffled on again.

I meant this to be a short post but again find I have so much to say. I have no idea if what I say ids helpful to anyone - I just continue writiung in the hope thayt some of it is.

All the best to you all

Veritee

PS I also felt everyone would be better off without me – that I was destroying my child’s and my husbands life and I even planed ways to disappear and at my worse how to kill myself somewhere where they would never find me and thus not have to know what happened to me – in other words I just wanted to disappear from their lives without causing them any further adverse consequences of my exsitance.
Impossible and daft as I well know now – I am actually a much loved and valued partner and mother, and my family would rather have me in any state than not at all.

But feeling that you are destroying your family and they would be better off without you is actually a symptom of PNI.

[stephy]

Thanks everyone for your replies. It really means a lot to read your words and I have found so much of what has been written helpful

went round a friends house last night, got very drunk and had a giggle. have one friend who has been ill with depression so she really understands and have found it helpful to talk to her. feel hung over but quite positive. almost frightened to feel it.

thanks for being here.

Stephy

[stephy]

My friend called from work on friday.. I have been friends with her for about 6/7 years. She is a lovely person, very confident and an amazing teacher. Her ability to hold it together under immence stress is pnenominal. But she keeps totally uninentionally making me feel bad. When she called she just managed to say really inappropriate things like' "do u think that Your baby is picking up on the negativeness?"( great, something else to feel guilty about!)
and, "Do you wean your self of the pills eventually? " (It's like well actually they have only started to work and your asking me to contemplate coming off them?!!!!!! ) Would you ask me to take my crutches away if my leg was not yet mending from a break? I think not!!!!!!!!!! :

The worst thing was that she is leaving at Christmas. She said ( and I know she did'nt mean to upset me) " I will be able to give you more quality time. At the moment I feel angry because of the extra work that you have left but I dont want to and I think it will be better all round when we are not working together".

Now, I know what she meant, but just as I am starting to not feel guilty about work and concentrating on sorting my head out she goes and says that and it just felt like a bit of a set back. She felt it and I don't blame her but she did'nt have to say it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I had glandular fever of something I'm sure she wouldn't feel angry and it just serves to make me feel more paranoid that people think I am making it up. I really understand why pople try to hurt themselves as a way of asking for help!!!!!

This is part of the reason why I often can't face people as I feel they are looking at me funny. The other night I didn't care ( ref night out round a friends) as I knew I was going to get very drunk in a safe environment.

The same friend I have just spoken about sent me a wonderful card with a lovely poem in it. I love her to bits so no one judge her personally. I think it's just a generally lack of true understanding.

She is also having a 30TH Bash in early december and as I am typing this I feel terrified of it and feel sick and panicky. I don't think she will understand if I don't go but I don't want to put pressure on myself.

this is a bit like keeping a diary for me even though I have never kept one. It is really helping to just come and tap tap away for an hour. better out than in!!!!!!!!

Thank

Stephy x

[Veritee]

Hi Stephy

I think your friend is actually very angry with you - more angry than even she realises and it came out in what she said to you on the phone.

It was not you - everything she said was at one level designed to push your buttons - which indeed it did.

I am sure she did not know she was doing it and it was just what came through - but do not blame yourself - this really was all her stuff.

I do not mean she is not a friend I am sure she is and a very good one - but even friends get angry.

Perhaps she is under a lot of stress maybe partly due to you being off, but this is certainly not your fault just a fact that she now has more work.

I think she was trying to get to grips with what was really going on for her when she said

" I will be able to give you more quality time. At the moment I feel angry because of the extra work that you have left but I don’t want to and I think it will be better all round when we are not working together".

Basically I think you should ignore the rest of the conversation - accept that although it is not your fault, she is very stressed herself - and I am sure there are other factors other than the extra work you have left that are stressing her out.

Just leaving a job that she has had for many years will be extremely stressful even for the coping woman you describe and I read even her saying that her feelings of anger were about your leaving her extra work was an attempt to blame you - a guilt trip.

She is probably not facing up to what leaving is going to mean for her - and I think that when she phoned you she must have been in a really bad place herself.

Perhaps now you are not at work she has no one to confide in herself and feels angry you are not there for her now you are ill - Whatever it is - her comments were designed to make you feel bad.

She may be ' a lovely person, very confident and an amazing teacher. Her ability to hold it together under immense stress is phenomenal.'

But she is not superwoman and I would not be too sure that making you feel bad is not intentional on one level.

Maybe let her know that even though it is you that has PNI your relationship does not have to be only about her supporting you - that you can still support her through her leaving, listen to her.

I say this because the way she was toward you sounds like a very stressed friend who however strong you perceive her to be actually during that phone call needed support herself but felt she could not ask for it as you are the one who is off sick.

When one has conversations like this, when you are needy yourself and want something from a friend but think you have to support them instead - the conversation invariably goes wrong.

You could also pick you time in the future to tell her how her comments make you feel, that they are not helpful and make it clear it does not have to be one sided you can support her too but you are not a door mat and she has to realise she can not hurt you like this.

Well that is just my gut reaction from what you said.
I do not know either of you so I can only try to understand.

But I do know that when we have PNI we find it hard to see when others are stressed and not in a good place and this can confuse our relationships and we blame me ourselves for everything rather than seeing what is really going on.

So even if I am completely wrong about what was going on in this interaction- perhaps you can look at it from other perspectives.

All the best

Veritee

[Stephy]

Thanks for that jennie and veritee.

my friend does have many stresses that I know she needs me for support and when I feel strong I will try to be there for her. But you are right that she is more alone at work now and there is one other factors in her life that she is very upset about that I wish I could help her more through. She has been trying for a baby and is worried that she can't concieve naturally so she must have all those issues making her feel down with each knock back she has.

I will try and see it from another perspective. Thanks, that really helped. It (PNI) does make you self centred and self absorbed a bit doesn't it when I stop and think about it.

She has got good people skills but she calls a spade a spade/doesn't beat about the bush etc if you know what I mean, God love her!

love stephyX

[Veritee]

Dear Stephy
While standing by all that I said about the probably reasons for your friends saying things to upset you - I really did not mean you are self centred or should not feel annoyed/cross at her phone call.

Quite the opposite I would be quite angry if a friend had responded to me like this however much stress she was under.

I only meant by what I said not to take the reasons for her doing this on yourself as none of it is your fault
(Certainly not her extra work, this is just how it is, If it was not you going off sick it could have been something else adding to her workload)

I also hope that when she is able to hear it that you tell her how unhelpful her comments were?
Certainly be sympathetic for her situation but do not take any blame for it and do be assertive that she can not hurt you like that.

Al the best

Veritee

[stephy]

Veritee

Do you think it would be ok to do it by e-mail if I word it carefully? Or will it be better face to face becasue I do think she needs to know that sometimes she can say things that are not helpful. It would be nice to have more neutral conversations with her. I say this because I'm sure some of it is me reading into things more that I should because I am sensitive to it all at the moment.

[Veritee]

Hi Stephy


I wrote this all out before 8.30 this morning thought I'd posted it and went out till now - only to find somehow I had not posted it - Sorry

Please do not treat anything I say as any more than just one person’s opinion. You do not have to do anything if you do not want to!

I was just struck by unhelpful it would be when you have PNI to have a friend who you rely on saying things that could knock your self esteem even further.

But it is entirely your choice whether you say anything to her. You may decide that it is best left but that if it ever happened again you would say something. It really is up to you as only you know her and how she would react.

I would hate my words on here to lead to you losing a friend when the most important thing when you have PNI is to have support from friends and relatives.

However I think you are being very charitable to say that it may be you reading more into what she said and being sensitive - yes you probably are sensitive but I think some of what she said when you are in the position you are of being off sick, would have hurt anyone.

As you said she would not have said these things if you had been off with a physical injury.

Anyway you do not have to say anything to her but if you do want to let her know how what she said makes you feel, I would do it in the way that makes you feel the most comfortable and the way you can handle at this time.

I have myself e mailed such confrontations to people - including my own husband as he goes away to sea for long periods and sometimes this is the only contact we can have.

However while at times this has been either the only contact possible or more often, the only way I felt I could say what I wanted to say - unfortunately I do find that it is easier to upset the other via e mail or for then to misconstrue what you are saying and upset you both further.

I think this is because with e mail the conversation is both 2D and serial.

What I mean is in e mail ( or on here for that matter) it is hard to convey your feelings/emotions, for instance that despite needed to pick up on something the person said or some on issues between you, you still love or like and respect the person and they are still one of your best friends. Being that e mail is serial i.e. one person says all they want to say then the other responds it is again impossible to pick up on the reaction your words are having on the other as you say them. This is sometimes advisable when confronting a friend you value.

However e mail can be a very good tool if you feel you would not be able to say what you need to say face to face or get to upset to get it our properly.

Basically I am saying it really is up to you.

If you trust your friend not to hurt you further face to face and you think you will be able to say all you want to then a cosy night in with a bottle of wine or an afternoon chat with a cup of coffee when the children are else where would be better.

If you are worried that to say anything would lose her support altogether maybe you do not want to say anything.

If you do talk to her though she may react by saying that it is all in your imagination and you are getting upset over nothing due to your PNI. Do not accept this, even if what she said was unintentional, she still could be as you say more neutral and I think if she did put it all back on you and blame your PNI this would be just her being defensive. Just because you have PNI does not mean you are not the same intelligent thinking person you always were.

I am sorry this post to you is so ambivalent but as I said my pervious reactions to what your friend said was just my gut reaction and only my opinion.

I feel I do not want to cause you to do anything that might be negative for you and not knowing you both personally I can not judge.

All the best

Veritee

[stephy]

You are both amazing to me in the fact that you have both helped me so much in just being there and responding. As a very indecisive person at the best of times, it is great to have your inputs on this. I can't express how much!!

thanks and much love

stephy X

[stephy]

Another restless night. Have kind of got used to it. I just seem to stare into space. I use the time to try and get things straight in my head now that I can think a bit straighter (prozac seems to be working more and more)
Or is the the trying to get things straight that is waking me up/keeping me awake? I don't really know!

One thing I thought about is that some of my "be positive, get out more, don't become a bore" friends don't seem to understand that I don't get bored or tired of staying in because at the moment that feels safe and and it's almost a relief not to HAVE to go anywhere. I have come to the conclusion for the moment at least that I don't care if that sounds sad sacky and the only thing that is making me feel bad about it is what other people think. i think its my minds way of having time to sort things out.

I don't find that I have got too much time on my hands as the day seems to go so quickly with doing little things and looking after Mia on the days that I have her. I don't even spend all day dwelling on it or atleast i dont think I do.

The last 6 weeks or so seems to be a bit of a blur. I noticed that my nails have got really long all of a sudden showing me that a lot of time has past me by without me realising it.

I find that since taking the prozac I am more in control of my emotions and my thoughts. It is just the sleepless nights and the pangs of guilt( not helped by peoples comments) that I am left with and trying to thathom out what has gone on to make sense of it all.

I read in one of these threads that prozac can disrupt sleep for about six weeks and then settles. Thats probably what is going on with me.

I might inquire about doing an assertiveness course so I am not such a helpless doormat and I am looking foward to my councelling sessions( wish I could afford to pay privately to have them sooner!)

For anyone out there who is worried about taking anti D's all I can say is they are definately helping me a lot, along with the support of this web site and everyones inputs.

Veritee, you are very good at this and I and I am sure many others appreciate your devotion to this site. You have used your bad experiences in such a positive way.

Did sort of e-mail my friend and am pretty sure that I have done it in such a way as to not upset her. Just don't think I could face a cup of tea or wine evening with her but really needed her to have an idea how what she implied made me feel ( even though I sympathise her dual purpose predicament ( friend and work ) )

[stephy]

Feeling very tired today as lack of sleep is catching up with me. Resortd to sleeping pill last night and am going to take one in a min for tonight. Can't face the thought of another restless night and feeling pooh all day tomorrow.

Having a bit of a down day today. must make an appointment with my doctor for next week. Don't feel ready to go back to work quite yet.

Don't really know how to go about it. scared to talk to any one about going back because I need to know if they can do the three day a week deal, before I can get myself prepared for what I am going back to. Still feel really panicky about it. More than the feeling you get after the holidays! Scared I won't cope, have a panic attack or scared that people will say something that will trigger me of into a dark state of mind that will be all consuming.

I've tried the idea of letting go of the job (jacking it in) in my head to see how it feels and if that makes me feel any better. Not sure it does but that might be the financial thing. Still think that I will feel the same about any job at the moment. How will I know that I am ready to go back to work? I've got it wrong before. I just don't feel equipped mentally yet.

[wendabell]

Just want to say i know how you feel about the work thing.I only had the 6/7 months off this time and at the end of it my mind was panicing between me not being ready to go back to work and the presure of if i didnt we would loose the house being as both of us are the main bread winners.I opted to the going back to work thing as i felt so guilty.Although i went from working shifts on days to working nights(i am a care worker with disabled student in college).It has worked out better for me as there is less stress and less people to talk to..I really do understand your dilema....And i dont have any answers sorry...i just wanted you to know that whatever you decide we are still here to help you.
Do you have an understanding/sympathetic boss,can you tell him/her about your strugles and throw the ball in their court.I dont have great bosses unfortunatly.But i do know there are some out there and if yours is one of them im sure they will help you in your return to work.Oh i just thought of something what about phased returning,just a couple of hours at a time and increase slowly until you are back up to the hours that you want.It was offered me once in my first return from having a baby and i took it,although my pni was not as bad then as it is now.Got to go my lil uns just thrown up on the sofa.Please talk to them i know its hard and pot calling the kettle black and all but try, let me know how you get on. love and blessings. wendyX.x.x

[stephy]

Hi wendy ( and all)

Phased returning sounds like a good idea. Have thought about it. The only thing that stops me is how I will be perceived by others. And its a big 'only thing'. It may be possible as they have someone in doing long term cover for mostly my lessons. They will more than likely employ him after this as we are short staffed anyway. How do I get over this paranoia about what everyone thinks of me? It seems to be such a big stumbling block.

As for contacting my boss, does it sound reasonable to do such a thing by post. I won't feel such a prat doing it like that and I am less likely to say wrong thing/cry/panic.

There is also the issue that with my job I work with the harshest judges, young teenagers. How do I answer their questions convincingly. Some of them can be quite cruel at the best of times. I wish it was an easier option to work else where but getting references and explaining this last couple of months doesn't exactly make me great employable material does it?!

there is also supply that I could leave and do at the drop of a hat. There are crying out for supply teachers after Christmas. Even though every supply agency has said someone like me will have no problem getting part time work, my fiance gets mega gittery as he worries that there is no garentee of work and we could be homeless.

I think if i had his support about doing supply then that is what i would leave and do. Many people find great jobs through supply as well which would be my ideal senario.

Any way. It's half past five or there abouts and I have had another rubbish nites kip and am fed up. I'm wondering if the fact that I am due a period soon might be making me feel slightly worse these last few days.

My friend e-mailed me back and she seemed ok with the 'neutral conversation' thingy.

Bumped into a male older friend yesterday whilst walking in the rain. Told him the doctor thought I had PND. He helpfully said that he personally thought that it was a load of rubbish. I told him he was in the minority and I must have looked quite cross as he didn't chat for long. he has known me to be down before and said it was just the though of going back to work that has done it. he said I looked on top of the world the last time I saw him at the beginning of the summer holidays. I have tricked a lot of people, even my self. When I saw him I had my daughter with me and that always makes me feel on top of the world because she is wonderful and becomes the centre of attention. something to be proud of when I am out with her with other people. But i feel like something has died inside.

My (duel purpose) friend at school said that one of my students asked if I was dead! I said to her that I felt that part of me HAD died and that was a good way of putting it.

When I think back now it all started to go wrong about a month to six weeks after I stopped breast feeding and it has all crept up on me gradually even though I had been trying to beat it back. Does that sound typical ?

gonna make a cup of tea and watch some morning telly now. love stephyx

[wendabell]

hi stephy cant chat long as got to get bryony ready for school.
my pni always seemed to return after i stopped breast feeding too,maybe there is a link,also feel at my worst when not on a period and on an up when i am,weird i think.
Your friend that you met that said unsupportive things,dont be to harsh on him it may be he felt embarased by your pni and as we put on such a great show of not letting anyone in and putting on that brave face to the world.im not saying his reaction was right ,but like a lot of people i know they think if you have a mental illness you should be sitting in a corner and dribbleing and not getting on with life and enjoying your children so much,maybe he needs educating.I think becoming a supply teacher sound great.And maybe im wrong but you sounded a little positive towards it too.I understand the need to work believe me,and when i found a shift pattern to suit me i felt more positive about my return.talk to your partner,i know its another pot and kettle black thing again but im sure he will understand if you just talk to him about being a supply,tell him how anxious all this is making you,and tell him you love him and want to carry on supporting (money wise)at home and i know you dont want to loose your home cos i dont...Look got to go im getting flustered about kids not ready for school.About the period thing im only responding to soo many at the mo cos im on right now and feel good....maybe its a coincidence?

[stephy]

Im glad you are feeling good and Im grateful you took time to reply but while you are on an up you know what I am gonna say don't you?!!!!even if you only book and then cancel.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

love stephy