Paranoid thoughts

[marsha]

Ive never written one of these before so here goes,

I have just had my third child (he is 4 weeks now) my other children are two and three, and I have suffered pnd each time and can feel myself sinking again.

I thought this time I might be ok because I can recognise the symptoms, but I am back to feeling terrible again, crying, tired, paranoid, and angry.

My HV is fantastic and my partner is trying his best but mostly I feel angry at him (I am not sure why). I am constantly torturing myself that he is doing things behind my back even though there is no real evidence of this, and then I feel awful about myself for thinking like this.

Also I get horrible thoughts about death and my children being hurt and these haunt me as well, it feels like my mind never rests.

I had been on anti depressants for years but found it hard to come of them, and now I dont want to take them again. although I was thinking about herbal ones instead.

I think just reading other womens experiences help as I dont feel so alone with this

Thanks for listening

[deborah]

Dear Marsha,
You had PNi symptoms with each child did you find your symptoms subsided during each pregnancy?

Did you get pregnant to release yourself from the pain of PNI?
I am asking this as i did with my 2 i felt to rough despite starting medication that i thought in my 'PNI and prozac induced' mind that getting pregnant would be the answer.....

Did your HV and / or GP discuss treatment and support for you?? If so what type of help or support??

The thoughts about death are natural in PNi because of the feeling with each birth or ' new life'- that we as mothers and fathers '''move up '' a generation.We are not the ''children'' now we have babies of our own and our parents are grandparents. Birth reminds us of our own mortality, the fragility of life and how precious life is.
It is normal having these thoughts. With PNi they become 'distorted' in some way- not because you will act on them (that is very very rare) but because you are aware in the 'back of your mind' (for want of a better phase) of the preciousness and vunerability of the babies. You too are very vunerable at the present time.
Emotions are raw. Each time you have a baby you are 're-born' psychologically, adjusting to a new little person, adjusting to a new family 'set-up' and the shift in personalities which comes as part of introducing new family members in your life.
Plus physically you are still recovering from the pregnancy and birth.(s).
What antidepressant were you prescribed, what dose and why was it hard to come off them??
Who monitored you and were you offered counselling?

Herbal remedies have a place but please not when you are acutley ill with pni.
Your baby and children are dependant on you for their emotional development. You as their mother need to be in as good an emotional/psychological state as possible.

You need a good antidepressant which will work for you as your symptoms will be more resistant to treatment because of you having it before and it not being treated properly.
Ideally you should be referred to a mother & Baby Psychiatric Unit for a full and proper assessment of your condition with a psychiatrist who deals with this all of the time.
How have you been treated in the past by GPs and Psychiatrists?
I know i have put alot od questions on here and if you are too ill to answer then its ok don't worry about it.
Answer if you want to in your own time.
You will get the help and support you need from the women on here who are great.
Post any concerns you have or any questions you need answering and let us help you.
You will get better marsha honestly.
Let us know how you are,
Lots of love
Deborah XxxxXX

[marsha]

Thankyou for replying

I dont think I got pregnant again to rid myself from PNI as I generally feel rotten whilst im pregnant as well (physically, more than emotionally) but maybe in some way it was for the more focused attention on me, as I had PNI quite badly (my fist child was only 6 months when I got pregnant again) and my partner didnt know how to handle this and I felt very unsupported at the time, but once I was pregnant again he was better with me (does that make sense?).

This last pregnancy was more to do with being rubbish with contraception! As I had a miscarriage a few months previous and didnt want another child at this time, plus I had just started a new job I love and was actually feeling a lot better.

During the first bout of PNI I was put on prozac, which worked slightly to begin with but seemed to lessen over time, then had to stop it anyway when I got pregnant again.

I was also referred to counselling by my HV, however there was a waiting list and it took a year for my first appointment to come through, by which time I was about to give birth to my second child. In the meantime I was supposed to recieve support from a CPN (community psychiatric nurse) who when he arrived (which he often didnt) was next to useless.

I did attend a few of the counselling sessions (which was cognitive behavioural therapy based) but I never felt that it worked for me.

After the birth of my second child I recieved progesterone treatment, and went back on AD's (this time venlofaxine) and although I still had PNI it seemed milder to begin with. However i was having relationship difficulties as well and ended up taking an overdose when my second child was about 9 months, although this was more to block things out then a serious attempt at suicide. i was admitted to hospital and the day after a cpn came out and referred me to a psychiatrist, my medication was at this point 150mg, but i still didnt feel better. i saw the psychiatrist twice over a period of a few months but he spent aprox five minutes with me and decided i wasnt depressed although he did up my medication to 225mg.

throughout this time the only real support from professionals has been from my hv who i am able to talk to, my gp seemed to think ad's were the only answer and i found mental health teams not very helpful.

after a while i began to think the ad's were actually making me feel worse and i started to wean myself of them gradually which i managed to do to 75mg, however when i tried to stop them compleley i got physical symptoms, including vertigo. when i spoke to my gp they said it was nothing to do with the drug. yet it kept on happening everytime i tried to stop. Ieventually found out this can happen with venlofaxine and I only managed to come of them when I had chicken pox and felt terrible any way.

Sorry I've rambled and my typing went bad because I was trying to feed the baby whist writing this.

[deborah]

Hi Marsha,
you haven't rambled on at all.

So you have had some treatment but i can;'t help wondering why if the prozac didn't work last time
(what you describe the not working over time is common with prozac and it is difficult to treat stubborn PNi with it)
It is a good starting point for anyone else but given your history you should be back on the venlafaxine as it is good for stubborn and hard to treat PNI.
CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) has its place but a bit further down the line when yuo are more stable on your medication but ideally when you are coming off Anti D's and your baby is older say 1 year old-ideally 18 months to 2 years.
Again only if you have developed poor behaviour due to issues from before you had PNI say very bad anxiety or obsessive behaviour which has increased with the PNI.

As i always say on here a specialist in PNi is ideal to sort out your symptoms and monitor you carefully.
See if you can be referred to one (sorry i dont know where you live) or a psychiatrist who knows or has alot of experience in PNI.

There are alot of issues to deal with here and counselling for a long enough period of time would help with that or even psychotherapy.

The CPn you don't have to have a man yuo have the RIGHT to request a female CPN and also the RIGHT to change your CPN if you don't get on with them.

Let me know what is happening now your current situation and what you feel would help you.
Lots of love
Deborah XXxxXX