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Post by francoise on Jun 1, 2005 15:55:34 GMT
hi
vee do you think there is a condition that is in between pni and the more serious one , i know the other one that i cant spell to be honest starts quickly but is there a condition that happens at the start that gets worse if its only treated for pni , im just wondering as i seem worse nowadays , also i do have alot of moments where i imagine things happening but are so real to me at the time , especially with the baby , i dont know if you remember me telling you before thaT he seems to change appearance alot and that is happening more and more , he gets so dark skinned although he is anyway and he seems to get smaller alot , i know it sounds mad but im wrecked trying to keep focused on trying not to see it , its to scary really
love fran xx
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Post by wendabell on Jun 1, 2005 16:02:01 GMT
fran, do you mean puperal Psycosis? Hunny to be honest i got heaps worse before i finally came thought it.It was like everything coming to a head all of a sudden then a huge explosion and then hey presto i was me. Sounds stupid but its the only was i can explain it! You know how bad i was a few months ago when i thought i was loosing it big time my whole world collapsed.But now look at me.Hey babe you can do it too you know i have every faith in you.
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Post by Veritee on Jun 1, 2005 16:49:25 GMT
Hi Fran
Like Wendy I think you mean Puperal Psychosis!
However I agree with what Wendy says - for some this is how it is, that they get a lot worse and then suddenly feel better.
And even for those who this is not how it works and their recovery is gradual I have to say that in my experience it still often gets a lot worse from how women feel when they first find the forum before it gets better.
Personally I think that this is because before you can recover you have to truly acknowledge to yourself how ill you are, before you start to get better.
And coming on here is for many the start of the process of opening out, talking about it and acknowledging it .
I sometimes have to stop myself using the old saying ‘it has to get worse before it gets better'
For me it was like I had to stop fighting it and just be ill - before I could get better.
As to your question - whether you have something in between PNI and puperal Psychosis.
Well personally I think many of us at our worse have some Psychotic type symptoms - I certainly did.
But I think it is too far from your birth for you to have puperal Psychosis itself.
When you have full blown puperal Psychosis this really is a very acute, severe, and comes on within days , weeks or at most a few months of the birth and the symptoms are unavoidable to those on the outside that I really think you would have been hospitalised by now if you did.
However PNI can be really severe without puperal Psychosis, and some require in patient treatment.
However getting it later can happen though rarely.
A member of the forum Elaine Hanzak in her book 'Eyes without Sparkle' described being diagnosed with puperal Psycosis later , when her baby was about 7 months
But this has been considered to be unusual - however I am now hearing from more who were diagnosed with PP not just after birth but later - so perhaps it is more comon than we think?
But I have to say so many women have asked me questions about their sanity ( ie if they are 'mad' rather than have PNI) in the weeks and months leading up to them starting to feel better.
That it almost seems like a pattern to me from the outside looking in.
But you must be feeling horrible Fran to ask if it could be puperal Psychosis and have some nasty and disturbing symptoms - and I am so sorry you are having to suffer this. Do you want to talk abotu your thoughts and symptoms
If you do we are here - if not we are still here
Have you been to your counselling yet? It does help some people a lot
But hang on in there - take all the advice and help you can - I know you will get better
All the best
Veritee
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Post by francoise on Jun 1, 2005 17:18:55 GMT
thanks wends and vee im so hoping your right , i am at my all time worst , i cant remember most of the last ten months atall now , not christmas , not one second of it , its dead wierd , my memory has gone completely from the birth , my counselling hasnt properly started yet , it seems like it isnt going to be enough though to be honest , i feel so crap , i think im mad as a hatter and yet sometimes i do see a very small glimmer of light but very seldom , is ten months like this sometimes , is it sounding like pni to you, i get my blood test resulsts anyday so im eagerly waiting on them for reassurance more then anything , im having a hard time sticking to routine , i just wanna sleep all the time and yet when i get up in the morning i have this over whelming dread of the day , my family are coming to se me now alot , i tell them what im thinking and the looks i get are surprise more than anything
i wish i could feel normal again for a while like i did before , at least i had times where everything was ok , but anyway thanks i will write on here if thats ok , i still feel uncomfortable on the main thread like im the most unpopular person ever on here .
love fran xx
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Post by wendabell on Jun 1, 2005 20:19:20 GMT
no not unpopular just not well hunny thats all. Anyway what you describe sounded just like me a while ago.To be honest my memory is still crap and the more i try to think of an event the more my brain will not let me recall it.IT makes me sad as a lot of the past five and a half years i truely cannot remember.I mean thats all my kids lives a blank like it never happened and when friends say oh do you remember when bryony used to do this or that i just nod as i really dont have a clue what they are going on about.its like its somebody elses kids they are talking about. Its horrible i know,i cry about it loads too hunny,Thats why im glad i take lots of photos as it helps a little. Just hang with us please we will get through it and you will find the light getting bigger honest.
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Post by Veritee on Jun 1, 2005 20:35:41 GMT
Fran
if you want to write - you write anywhere it feels comfortable.
I have to say it does feel like PNI to me, even Brooke Shields said ' I went to a very dark place'
I think that sums it up for me anyway - I went also to a very dark place - and so do many of us.
At my worse I saw no glimmer of hope at all - I just thought it would always be like that.
That feeling of dread - this definitely feels like PNI to me. It is so common that it is listed on almost every list of PNI symptoms
But until you get it -you do not know what it means.
If you do not have it, this is just words, but when you have it you realize that it means what it says - you wake up with a feeling of absolute and all consuming - dread.
I lived with this for a long time.
Why not try no fighting it for a while - tell your husband you need a real rest, perhaps he could have some day s off work , and you will be staying in bed some days, maybe your family can help ?
I do know that this is not possible in most situations but if you do not stop pushing yourself to be well and manage and get by - sometimes it will take longer.
So even if you can not just rest up for a while, just be kind to yourself and get as much help as you can.
As Wendy says you will be well in the end - I have no doubt, but accept anything offered in the meantime to get you there.
All the best for now
Veritee
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Post by francoise on Jun 2, 2005 8:49:31 GMT
thanks
yeah it is pni isnt it , i had my results back and they are normal which points to it being in my head for sure now , its wierd coz i was so shocked when she said normal , i was like are you sure but thats what it says ,
the dread thingy is pretty overwheming vee and i can feel it it so strong like its horrible coz i look at the baby and think oh you poor thing why would i feel like this as i have you all day , its like an insult to him , and yeah wends i cant remember anything atall really either which is sad but im going to take more photos today of him so i can at least look at them alot eh , i cant even remember why some people aint speaking to me , good job really i spose , i just hope that people that matter will try and understand what i have been through and how hard it has been and forgive any of my indescretions or mistakes i have made ,its important to me that i stay true , i hate hurting people and letting people down so much , i am a good person deep down and i acknowledge errors of judgement completely and feel as though i could do with more understanding really , its hard i feel when its mental more than physical , how can i be for real all the time when i dont even know what im thinking or saying half the time , its unfair that allowances arent made more often than they are ,
im so lucky to have some mates who understand me and some family , , i wont name them as i feel that is unfair to the group as a whole but they have been so kind and thoughtful , im going to try and focus more on the positives but i know when im tripping about i cant focus on what i want to , anyway thanks so much you two , oh and wends yeah im in touch with lana , ill ask her to text you if you like , i got to go , i got the h.v coming but ill write more later on , thanks so much for this right now , its much appreciated
fran xxxx
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Post by wendabell on Jun 2, 2005 8:57:14 GMT
fran, im glad too that its just the pni. And yes photos help so much you will never believe.so much i would have forgotten if it wasnt through photos,it joggs your memory. And as for upsetting people.Well on here we are all fragile and very paranoid its part of this stupid illness and what can be said to one in support another might take offence.I think this is coming out all wrong but what im trying to say is that we all get hurt in this and we all feel the worlds against us most of the time. You have so many people that do care about you and thats the important thing.After all we are never going to be friends with the world but if we can get on thats the main thing eh! Hand in there and see you later love wendy x.x.x
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Post by francoise on Jun 2, 2005 12:20:54 GMT
hi , ive just got back from the docs , she was ace , she said counselling is a must and there is no more talk of units at the moment , she wants to give it another three months to see if things improve and see her agin if it doesnt , shes put me back on the pill as she said i was improving then , which i was better than i am now to be honest so its worth a shot
she described post natal depression as everything coming at once thats happened in your life and hitting you like a bolt , she said it always ends up better though, she was ace , got visitors this weekend so im off to clean the house abit n maybe get a bath , yeah sod it eh , spoke to lana today , she is tryin so hard to bless her , gonna speak with her againn at the weekend to see if shes ok to
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Post by wendabell on Jun 2, 2005 13:27:37 GMT
you will get there,say hi to lana for me and say we miss her.
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Post by francoise on Jun 3, 2005 8:59:38 GMT
hi
i have been thinking about this and im sure the docs have missed something , i might go back again , its like so wierd that they havent found out what it is , maybe its the something that i havent thought of yet, i think though that there is definitely something else , i did ask about breast cancer to , she shrugged that off saying leaking boobs is common months n months later especially if im emotional over the baby
ah its abit like an obsession finding out realy , i feel like crap this morning and i really do need to do things but im gonna go to bed instead as daz is here today so hell with the housework im afraid , i need to lie in bed and work it out , like head spinning headaches , aches , joint pains , nausea , crappy horrible thoughts and a massive feeling of dread and even the thought that i have been possessed by an evil soul trying to destroy me , im going to church again on sunday just incase , you never know really , wierder things have happened to people, did i tell you i have three months before they introduce me to other people that might understand my head , fat chance i bet , im losing hope by the week , havent had a good day for as long as i can remember but i determined to do everything they say except the bit where it comes to going out everyday , im not in a frame of mind to do that just now , anyway its either make or break time i guess , if only i could look back at this and say wow that was hard fran but you got thru it , i wish
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Post by Veritee on Jun 3, 2005 9:06:24 GMT
Hi Fran,
how are you today
I am so glad it was more positive at the Docs.
I too think counseling is a must - I know it is a really difficult thing to do - but sometimes you have to do it.
Is it CBT she is referring your too or something else? Not to tell a doctor her job but I personally from what Iknow of you would have thought you had issues about guilt etc to work through first before CBT to change how you respond in different situations and thought patterns - would be effective
But I am only an amateur - so listen to her - not me.
You will beat this thing you know! Your doctor was right about PNI being everything at once and like a 'bolt' did she suffer it? she seems to speak as someone who really knows!
Have your visitors come yet?
I have to go oout now - but I will be back later
All the best
veritee
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Post by francoise on Jun 3, 2005 12:18:33 GMT
hi vee
my visitors are due tomorrow again till sunday night ,
the doc i dont think has had pni but i will ask her next time i see her,
about the guilt thing , yes i have had issues with guilt i think constantly since the start of the pregnancy , bleeding throughout , at first i thought it was through sex while pregnant and then i bled anyway but yeah loads of guilt loads of regrets , i didnt smoke or drink when i was pregnant but thats only a small part of it all isnt it , i had problems coping right from the beginning of it all , funny as it was what i truly wanted and i do love him so much , hes a true little marvel , im so lucky , always thought so no matter what , i cant wait till im better , i want to do so much like i used to and loads of new things , im not one bit sure ill make it though but if i do im gonna be a very adventurous wonderful mother to them , and wife to daz ,
im thinking hard about my next battles and i know im at my worst and its something im so pised off about to be honest , its seems like its never ending really , every morning the same shit , i get angry at myself for not coping better , i get angry at the docs all the time for not finding an answer , i spose i will have a lot of empathy for a lot of things though when its all over , thats if i am still here when it is , cant pretend vee , im not gonna say something i dont think , this is it isnt it , being real , saying what we think and believe or otherwise whats the point of talking atall ,
love fran xxx
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Post by Veritee on Jun 3, 2005 18:44:41 GMT
Dear Fran
I have been to a birthday party ( a friends child) this afternoon - so just catching up.
You really are struggling and I do know this anger at yourself for not doing it better. Please tell it how it is and I will try to also to you. I too see no point of not being real.
This is a pig of an illness and there is no point in pretending otherwise.
Who are your visitors - are you going to feel you have to put up a front for them?
I really hated it when I had visitors and had to do this at a time when putting up a front was beyond me anymore.
These days it’s beyond me also - but for different reasons.
As for the guilt - I think it is because they are so important and you want the baby so much that you feel so much guilt because the pregnancy and birth was not right,
You feel you have failed them -least I felt I had failed Caja and while I fight it - there is a little bit of that I can not shift. But I can see when it is others feeling like this how unjustified it is.
You only did your best for your baby - all the way though.
What sort of answer do you want the docs to find?
Sometimes it helps to work backwards and think what you want to be wrong with you?
I don’t think you have ever told me this even -
Exactly what do you think is wrong - what would you like them to find as a cause of how you feel?
Is it something specific like others have said - or generally having a life threatening illness?
Would you rather have a life threatening disease than it be PNI?
If you would, why?
Is it that having PNI carries shame? Or would being ill be a way out?
It is better to be dieing than be mentally ill because if you have PNI you are to blame?
Just trying to see how you feel as I do not think I actually do despite all the conversations we have had! so I thought I would try to find out
Sorry if I push too much - if so don’t answer.
It just that sometimes verbalising what you want or expect to be the cause - you can work backwards or at least find out if this is the cause however unlikely it is .
All the best
veritee
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Post by francoise on Jun 3, 2005 19:56:11 GMT
hi vee
its ok really to ask me questions , i like to answer them so much , the thing with the illness is that no i really hate the thought of having a terminal illness but im scared of kind of being to positive about it just being pni that in some way i tempt fate and in doing so i do get one , its hard to explain , its like having ababy thats one in every three million , whats the odds in that and then them telling me they have never had mrsa babies in their ward and lo and behold i have one , it seemed that losing the twin was the start of a series of really bad things and i guess i kinf of became used to expecting real bad news , when the baby got the all clear with his skin i was so shocked and so ecstatic and instead of that making me turn positive it made me worse because i then thought thats all the good luck im gonna have for a long while id so really love to know that what i had was pni and nothing else but i just find it hard to understand how a mental illness can cause all of the physical symtoms aswell , i feel crap n tired and aching , i just dont get it how pni can make me feel like that , of course i understand the bad thoughts of it being pni , even the scariest of them which are coming thick and fast now but it still fels bazarre to me , i wish i could get my head around it all , sometimes i feel like death would be better but im so adamant that suicide is never to come into my mind as a serious option , i cant do that just incase they cure me or i cure myself , life is so precious to me that i want it so badly that i cant take the risk of losing vital time that i would have if i got better , its so hard to explain really but yeah the illnesses that i have thought of are the first was brain tumours and then lung cancer and then bone cancer and breast cancer and loads of cancers actually thinking about it now and this last one was ms or me or some crippling one , the doc told me i had no really serious physical illnesses , but still i find that after 39 years of getting al the usual stuff that these aches and pains are so unlike any other i have experienced before , i did actually go through the poisoning one to come to think of it , i was convinced i was being poisoned by the gas like the other girl ,
you kno what i want , i want the docs to say that all i have is pni and nothing else and i want to believe it in my heart and then i know i would feel better , you wouldnt believe what i said today in the garden , i said to darren that i could feel loads of lumps everywhere all over my stomach and i must be riddled , he just gave me that look of not again kind of thing , i pray that i will get better , i love everyone so much that i dont want to lose a minute with them , i adore my family and friends ,i just feel like this has taken over my head now almost completely and its turned into a massive obssession , i dont want to be the most clingy to people when im scared the most either , like thats why i stayed off here recently when i was really bad , i felt as though i needed to suffer it in silence for a while so that i could live with meself , dont ask me why as i have no idea , maybe embarrassment , i am not really sure , some of the things ive been tripping about lately are so far out that it would be difficult to expect people to relate to any of it really ,
anyway vee you asked who my visitors are , well its my mate from plympouth again with her hubby but i have amys mate staying for a week to as she has been having a few problems and i told her mum she could stop here and revise with amy for their exams
anyway must go , thanks vee ,
love fran xxx
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