In need of support

[gizmoracer]

First off please bere with me on this one as its going to be hard for me to write.

Basically, I am 'on the mend' shall we say. Certainly alot better and now in the process of finally being weaned off my meds. But boy am I finding these blips hard work, worse in fact than suffering before hand. I was doing really well in all aspects and then suddenly I had one of the worst nights imaginable with my son. It hit me so hard and next thing I know I'm back to where I started Thing is I know its a blip and they will come and go but i have never been able to deal with 'the thoughts' I get, and the other night they came back. I am still really upset about it and feel horrendously guilty and fearful that in someway or another it 'means something'.

I don't really know what I'm saying here, but I could do with a few people being braver than I am (coz right now I can't bring myself to do it) and give me an idea of what sort of thoughts they used to get themselves - you know the really bad ones mainly about your children and things you fear you could do to them. And how you got over them.

I don't want anyone to feel pressured into telling me excatly what those thoughts were, as I myself can't get that far just yet, but I desperatly need to know how to overcome them and get them out of my head.

Thanks.

[sadmum39]

Hey Gizmoracer,

I have had the most dreadful thoughts - so bad I wanted to stab a knife in my head to stop them. I am still at the beginnings and worst of the illness so I dont feel comfortable enough on an open forum to disclose lots of details. I had a crisis a few weeks ago and came on here and I felt that the responses from the gorgeous mums on here quite literally saved my life. Another post about identity being disclosed on google made me panic and tried (in complete panic) to delete my crisis posts because of shere terror that if anyone knew how bad my thoughts are that they would use it to take my babies away! Not sensible I know now! All I can say is that the thoughts do pass - and they are just thoughts - nothing more. And please use the forum as I know it helped me a lot when the thoughts took over
Wishing you lots of love
SMxxx

[annad]

Hi!
I'm having a bad day too after being better for a while. I took a train into town and became obsessed that I would push the pushchair in front of the train as it came into the station. I worry that I will pour a boiling kettel over my son, sleep walk and harm/kill him. One of my worst was that I might set on him with the electric carving knife! I really have to remind myself tha I am not a nutter who needs to be locked up, and that this is all part of the process. In fact, this is the first time I have felt brave enought to write this down so that must be progress!
Take care
Anna

[Veritee]

Oh I am so sorry to all of you that are having a blip with the thoughts.
Annad - will it help to post more on the main board

I understand what you mean by having to remind yourself that you have PNI and 'I am not a nutter who needs to be locked up, and that this is all part of the process'

You have indeed been very brave to write them down - it is easier for me, although still not that easy, because my thoughts were long in the past - but it is still difficult to admit the extent of them and exactly what I thought.

_______________________________________

The thoughts for me were the worst thing of my illness and the last to go.

And I will try to be honest about what they were about - but I warn you they are graphic!!! So please do not read if they might upset you.

Others have described their thoughts on here in the past but their posts have been lost in the mountain of posts since - so I will tell you about mine if it helps?

I found that after three years they were not there all the time and I would have months without them........
but then seemingly out of the blue I would be minding my own business, getting the tea or caring for Caja in some way and suddenly the thoughts would be there again!!!!!!

My thoughts were varied :

Started with the idea of illness or accidents.

• that I would become suddenly ill and die while Barry was away at sea and would not be able to care for Caja and she would starve to death as no one would find me or know I had died
  
• or that she would die because she was ill and no one had found out why? Not so impossible as she was quite ill as a baby and for many months
  
• or she would be ill and my care of her was not good enough and she would die horribly as we are 22 miles from the nearest hospital and I would be unable to take her to hospital because my agoraphobia with PNI in the early days meant I felt I could not drive far
  
• Or I would trip and fall down the stairs and she would fall onto our hard floor and her head would crack open
  
• or that I would trip and her head hit - killing her - on the granite hearth stones
  

You notice that in all my thoughts I am the instigator - I am the one to blame even if accidentally or though illness - for most we have thought where we are at least mosly to blame for the imagined event - though some others do have thoughts that someone else will harm their baby or child


I think my early thoughts were prompted by my feeling that I was not good enough to care for her or keep her safe, so either accidentally or though illness I was bound to fail and it would lead to disastrous consequences


In the very early days - when I first started changing nappies - I also had thoughts that I would sexually assault her when changing her nappy i.e. put my finger up her vagina deliberatly and harshly!!! Funny enough this worried me less than the other thoughts as I knew I would never do this!!!

But then as I got iller and more scared, my thoughts got worse

• I started to have thoughts as we were out walking with her in a front sling and later a back pack that I would thrown her down a mine shaft - we live on an old tin mine and I have an open shaft on my own land and several more next to footpaths I walk
  
• Then thoughts that I would throw her into a bog - we do actually have real bogs that are dangerous in the valley- I helped rescue a horse who had fallen in one and he was sunk up to his nose - we only got him out with a tractor, we put a rope under him and hauled - if I threw Caja in I used to imagine she would sink instantly and I would go home and say she had been abducted and no one would know??
  
• but my thoughts ended up so much worse with thoughts at first that I would stab Caja either accidentally or later on purpose - because of this I threw all our knives down a mine shaft one night as I could not bear a knife to be in the house, so for a year we had nothing to cut up food!! Barry kept his own knife to do this when her was home hidden up his garage!!
  
• Then the worst thoughts of all began - that I would stab Caja through the brain - this was well thought out and very graphic - that I would do it in such a way so she would not feel a thing, that I would take a horse syringe I used to inject horses and stab her from the back of her neck up to her brain to kill her quickly so she would not suffer!!!!!!!
  

!!
I am sorry about the graphic details but.....................

Gizmoracer you asked for the truth - and this is the truth!

I find it difficult to write the extent of my thoughts even now my daughter is 18 years old - it is as abhorrent to me that I had theses thoughts as it was at the time - and this was part of my PNI as I HATED myself for having them and despite knowing it was not so ......................often felt like a monster

I wont go on about why I think I had theses thoughts, except to say in retrospect it was all around how I feared I could not protect her and my protectiveness when into overdrive and considered every horrible eventuality and because I was ill and did not trust myself and was scared of something happening to Caja - I became convinced that I personally was the danger I feared.

I often thought at the time that maybe I did want to do theses things when the thoughts were happening as they seemed so real......... and for a few years later .

but I do know now that I did not and they were actually thoughts about the last things I would want to do - they were my fears - magnified!!!

I could see this clearly somehow with the thoughts about sexual abuse as I could see they came form my own sexual abuse and that this was a fear but it actually was the last thing I would ever do..

but as I have never been violent I could not at the time see the thoughts of harming her as just my fears..

I could not understand where they came from or why I had them.... so thought they had to be real intentions!!!

All I can say is they are gone now, and for many years. The blips where I would have them got fewer and further apart until I never had them again.
and this will happen for you.

VeriteeXX

[gina]

Hi,

I suffered 7 years ago and can now thankfully reflect back.
I was pretty isolated at the time and no internet, how I wish I'd found this site back then, prehape I would have felt a bit more normal.
I had pretty horrid thoughts, but I would also have visual images of the thoughts and found it hard to determine what was real and what wasn't. It scared the hell out of me and didn't tell anyone because I thought that this wasn't normal, they wouldn't understand and I would scare them.
I became so anxious about my thoughts I decided not to have any, not one single one, every time a thought came into my head I would push it aside, read a book or sing once I cought a fish alive... In reality we are thinking something all the time, "shall I make a cup of tea" "what's on the tv tonight" etc etc you get the picture. Try pushing every single thought out of your head all day everyday. Second thought's don't, It screwed me up big time.
I eventually figured that thoughts are a normal part of our day to day life and we never really think about them let alone worry about them. Once you have kids the pressure kicks in. You have a small baby that you must protect and you begin to think about all the "what if's" I found that the more I worried about them the more I had them so I adopted the attitude that because I was so worried that I might carry these thoughts out, it did in fact mean that I wouldn't. I wanted to protect my baby not hurt him.
I suppose all my bad thought were of all the dangers that might happen, I was looking over the pier and saw my baby falling... so I walked back down the middle. It's the anxiety and fear that surround the thoughts that worried me but that's not a bad thing. If I hadn't worried about bad thoughts that would have been the time to really worry and get to a place of safty.
Even now I have the thoughts but have relaxed and don't torture myself over them they are just part of everyday life and tend to be things like "don't slam the door's, you'll trap your fingers", "Hold my hand by the road" (so you don't get run over)etc back then I just had a lot and they were very vivid. I found it hard to explain to my husband untill one day he came in from the garden looking awful, he had been digging and our son was running around, Yep he's had a visual thought of him falling over under the garden fork and him stabbing him through the head... Bing imagin having those thought 10,20,30 time a day... that's how I felt... not just dealing with how one thought felt but all of them... He finally understood why I was so frightened, why I was a jibbering wreck.

I suppose my other thoughts were my feelings, my sad feelings. I used to write these down everynight, whatever was in my head I wrote down even if I didn't feel upset about anything I'd still write something down, doing this everynight gave me time to deal with things that I was witholding, writing takes longer than thinking so you have to think about it more as you have to finish the sentence no matter how hard or painful that sentence might be.
It also meant that having a part of the day to deal with my thoughts and feeling I didn't worry about them at other times, I would push any bad feelings to the back of my mind (I'll think about it later) and I did, ok so I spent an hour every night sobbing my heart out but it left the rest of the day to enjoy my son and my life without feeling guilty or worring about something as I knew I would deal with it later.

The thing that I feel got me through was trying to be and think positive, If something made me feel bad I tried to find a way that made it not so bad or at the worst bearable. If something made me feel better than that was a good thing, it didn't matter if it worked or not as long as it made me feel good. I also found being kind to myself helpful as I am important, my kids need me but not just that, they need me to be happy and I am now.

I hope that knowing you are not alone is of some comfort and hold on, you'll get there, I never thought that I would, but I did.

Gina

[gizmoracer]

Hi guys.

Thank you all so much for what you have posted here I really needed to hear it. Sadmum don't feel bad for not being able to say much. I feel this site is the safest place for us all to say how we really feel without being judged and I too couldn't say what my thoughts had been, just very thankful they have gone for the time being. Annad and Veritee, it means so much to me that you were able to be so honest, I feel so bad for you to have been through it so dramatically and graphically. Yet you have of coarse come back out the other side with everyone close to you still intact which is the important part really isn't it. and Gina you sound like youv'e been to hell and back trying to block out everything. It has certainly made me think that trying to push it aside is not the way to deal with it.

I haven't spoken to my counseller about any of this, I know she wouldn't judge me and that she has probably heard it many times before but I still have trouble facing up to things like this and part of me thinks its not worth making a fuss when I am getting better now anyway. I did however have a good chat with Steve about it. Only because he read what I had posted and made me tell him excatly what was going on. I gave him a link to my diary on here a while back now and asked him to check in on it every so often to see how I was and if he could help. It has worked well, I feel bad for not wanting to talk to him about some of this stuff, I guess its sometimes harder to open up to those closest to you for the fear of what they will think.

Anyway he told me about similar thoughts he had and managed to guess mine, which saved me from saying them. He said that they are only thoughts and he knows what sort of person I am and although I openly admit to really enjoying some of the ones about other people (such as the MIL for example) he knows I am not the sort of person to do any of it and a high majority of people fall into this category. I guess its just a way of dealing with anger. The other thing he came up with that I though was a good one is just how many people suffering with PNI have actually Killed or halmed their own children? Not sure if Veritee has any stats on this one but like he pointed out it would be a big thing in the press and other than that poor woman last year who jumped in front of a train with both her children I can't think of any (I think even that one had a more complex background than just PNI). Yet compared to the amount of people who do at some point suffer it does say alot.

I thought I would post all f this in the hope of it helping a few other people as well. Once again thanks everyone, very much appreciated.

[sadmum39]

Hello Gizmoracer
I have come on here because of your honesty and lack of judgement.

My thoughts are back. I want to stab a knife in my head. I want to stab a knife in my broken heart. I want to stab a knife in my bruised and battered arms and legs (my middle one is mentally disabled and he's started piching and kicking me all the time through frustration. He's 3 but in his little head he's only 1) I want to stab a knife in my vomit stained, poop stained carpet that we cant afford to replace. I hate my head - I hate my thoughts - I hate myself
SadMummyxx

[monica]

Dear Sadmum

I'm sorry these thoughts are back. Forgive me, I can't rememebr exactly how you were doing (I think a bit better but still having probs?) These thoughts are exhausting and completely draining not to mention distressing. - I know.

Can you tell yourself that they are only thoughts and are brought on my PNI. It's sounds as if you have alot of work esp with your middle child. Both my kids had tantrums really badly and it does get to you big time.

At the mo I've noticed I get quite a few thougths about horrible things happening to my kids (and I consider myslef to be well again), but I can bat them away at the moment as they are thoughts brought on by something Imight have read, a situation I might have been in.

Sweet heart, Your'e not a bad person, you're just ill with this cruel illness and having horribel thoughts whatever they might be (for instance hariming your kids is common) but it will go - it might be a bit of a struggle - but you will get there. Please post if you want to get things off your chest - you don't have to give specific detials unless you want to - but I'm sure you'll find that you're one of many tohave these thoughts. These are thoughts - the vast majority of women don't act on them it's just the fear of doing it can be paralysing. Social services dont' take away kids willy nilly - only if they're at risk and that's not the case withyou at all.

These thoughts are the mothering instinct going into overdrive - mine used to revolve around me and my kids and family getting ill and dying when I was bad I wasn't able to rationalise at all - a little cold would get me thinking the worst. Many women have thoughts about hurting their kids, sexually abusing them, but it's the same thing - the instince going into overdrive where you fear the worst case scenario. But you clearly love you kids - if you didnt' these thoughts wouldn#'t bother you at all!

If you feel you need to talk out aloud perhpas try calling Samaritans. Would you see your dr? I think your'e on meds - maybe they're not working if this is going on a while?

How are you this pm?

Monica

[sadmum39]

Hello Monica
Thank you so much for responding.
I had been doing really well. Changed Meds and they were really helping. Had some sunny days, began to love my OH again..........then a big relapse.
I couldnt even begin to tell you my thoughts - but what you said is so reassuring - that many of us have them - but we wont act on them. I do hate the thoughts. Thank you so much for your advice - I'll try to speak to my doctor. She is so lovely and kind and understanding but I am scared to admit that the devil is living in my head. Thanks for being here for me to talk to #love SadMumx

[monica]

Hi #sadmum

Hpw are you doing today? It does sound somuch like a blip. It's esp horrible if you've had a good period, felt on the up then a blip can really hit you hard and knock you for six.

I can honestly say that it was exercise that brought me out of the first blip I had that lasted for over a month. I went from feeling great to being really low, tearful, no confidence, no self esteem, (never mind low), dark thoughts it was an awful place. However, I went to an aerobics class and literally I came out feeling ace. Iknow this isn't for everyone - maybe you dont' want to, dont' feel able to or practical reasons, but if you can exercise (and I think exercise that's gets the old heart going) really works well.

So glad you've got a lovely dr - that can make a huge difference and I'd say it's a good idea to go and see her even for reassurance.

Take care

monica

[katiev]

Hello,
I'm new to the site and this thread has made me feel so much better about the thoughts Ive been having, and have reaffirmed what I know to be true- that they come from a desperation to be a good mother, and the overwhelming responsibility of being the only one to care for a helpless fragile child. I always think about my babies head hitting the floor or being crushed underneath me as I fall down the stairs, and I worry I might make it happen by accident. I also have the thoughts at traffic lights when Im pushing the pram and I feel I might push the pram out into the road and I see the pram being hit and my baby flying out and it makes me feel so sick.
Its hard when you're thinking it to remember where it stems from, I know that.

Just want to say to everyone else on this page, don't be ashamed. It comes from such a beautiful place and thats the part that loves your baby so SO much that things get out of hand. Your children will grow up to feel only the love and care you have surrounded them with.... much love xxx

[carol]

Hi all, Just reading through these threads is like I have written some of them! The common theme of knives, pushing the pram in the road, throwing the baby down a well (out the window in my case) and in a bog ( duck pond) is exactly the thoughts I had to the point I would park the pram about 20 ft away from the duck pond just in case. Its so good that you ladies keep saying these are thoughts, and part of this awful illness. Everyone here is so brave and string, I get strength from you all. Lots of love to you all. Carol xoxoxox

[gizmoracer]

Hi everyone, I've only just noticed this thread is still going, Just felt I needed to say sorry to those of you who have posted and I've not replied. Especially Sadmum as you posted to me in the first place I am so so sorry for not noticing. How are things now? I hope Monica replying to you helped you when you needed it.

[gizmoracer]

I just felt i needed to add to this thread as I am about to put a link to it in another post and also because it is very relivant to my story. As many of you know I am appearing in Bella magazine on Tues 29th Jan and it has taken everything I had to be able to finally open up and have it put in writing to the public that my main thought which has been haunting me for years now was that I would smoother my son. I had voices telling me to do it and I felt so ashamed and guilty and even now keep asking myself if I have done the right thing in putting this in the public eye. But after seeing a post in the main forum I think I can safely say I have done the right thing. I read back to my first post here and remember writing it terrified on what you would all think of me and this is excatly why we have to raise the awareness to stop the torment of other mums out there who think they are a danger to their children when really they are not.