GMTV with LK

[cheshire]

Couldn't agree more!

And I guess not everyone sectioned is diagnosed with PP either. Or that everyone with PP is sectioned. What a complicated illness!

I just think it's great that people like Joanne speak out - with her husband there too to support her. Prime time TV - someone will hopefully get the help or reassurance from this, at the very least

[winegirl]

Thats true H! It is a misconception I think sometimes that proffessionals call PP `the most severe type of PNI', it just isnt true. The fact is it is a DIFFERENT type, and in an MBU you will come across women whose PNI is even more debiltating than the next patiant with PP. The clues are in the words depression and psychosis, both different types of illnesses, but it is often wrong of proffesionals to class one more severe than another, I think a sectioned women with PND whose life has fallen apart would prob not be impressed in being told her illness was not as bad as PP!

Here I go again, back on my high horse! LOL. I guess the proffessionals are getting under my skin a bit this week!

[tears]

Thank you winegirl for highlighting something that really irritates me. I thought i was the only one!

It really gets under my skin when people call pp the most severe form of postnatal depresssion. In fact i dont know if anyone has read Elaine Hanzaks 'eyes without sparkle' but in this book it mentions pp as being 'the most severe form of postnatal depression'.

I wish people wouldnt make this mistake.

Postnatal Psychosis is a severe form of postnatal illness. It can come with or without depression.

Postanatal depression can be mild, moderate or severe. People with pnd can experience psychosis if severely unwell

but

as winegirl so correctly highlights

people with severe pnd do not always experience psychosis.

Therefore someone with severe pnd(without psychosis) can be as unwell as those with a postpuerpal psychosis(with or without depression).It is important to acknowledge this.

I'll get off my high horse now
Tears
xx

[cheshire]

I can only agree Tears and Winegirl. In fact, my psychiatrist highlighted that one may have 'stepped into and out or psychosis' without having a full psychotic episode, if depression is severe. And that the severe anxiety/ depression is a huge challenge in itself.

Good someone has spoken out (Joanne) - must enhance awareness and lift the stigma so that women get the help they need early, no matter what their diagnosis. That is what's important x

[winegirl]

Tears, I am glad that you can see this too. I think it is not helpful for ladies with severe PNI also, that PP is often described this way, I have met ladies with PNI who have been very very poorly indeed, and some with PP who have had a rough stint for a couple of months and recovered, and the same vice versa! One day those that call themselves proffesionals will get it right and clearly just outline the difference in symptoms without making comments on severity!

You are not on your high horse hun, you are just stating fact!

[Emma]

I was not diagnosed with PNI or PP but with behavioural problems and a personality disorder whilst in a Mother & Baby Unit with "experts" in perinatal mental health casting their opinions over me . I have no faith in so called professionals. I also think there is a huge lack of awareness about anti natal depression as everything that is labeled as post natal I had during my pregnancy - I have found very, very little information about that. Our horses are all very high & very busy! x

[winegirl]

I agree Emma! I am actually just off out the door now for a shift on our Mother Baby Unit, so intent to come back armed with information on their disgnosis, treatment, care plans etc.. Lets see what happens!

[naomi]

Thanks for posting the link Andrea so we could catch up on this

I really think Joanne and her husband did a great job in a difficult situation of such a 'magazine' style programme. It's such a shame that in the mainstream media (like the Eastenders story) it seems there's more interest in dramatic symptoms and being 'sectioned' than in what works well to treat women and help them recover a full quality of life.

I think Dr Hilary missed a huge opportunity to inform himself properly (!) and talk clearly about the difference between (1) postnatal depression, which can be more gradual and yet still hugely distressing for families and (2) puerperal psychosis which is relatively rare in comparison to PND and generally escalates in severity very quickly. I felt that both LK and Dr Hilary hadn't decided whether they were raising awareness about perinatal mental health in general or PP specifically. Very surprised they chose to use the term 'PND' on the website.

I wonder if we should produce a 1-page "facts you should know about puerperal psychosis" and "facts you should know about PNI" for any mums contacted to give to media interviewers to download from www.pni.org?

Lots of love to all
N x

[cheshire]

That sounds like a really good idea!
We have plenty on PNI in general, but if anyone would like to help with the PP bit - that would be great

[Bookwormprincess]

Naomi, that's a great idea about the facts because people are so uninformed. But is it any wonder, since PNI in it's severity and especially PP are just not talked about and I think every pregnanct woman should be told of the symptoms and warning signs.

I agree with what others have said above, that PND can be just as or more severe in one sense that PP, although it is the swiftt onset of PP and the delusional thinking and behaviour that makes PP a bit of a mental health emergency and different from the way PND manifests intself from what I understand. But all forms of PNI overlap in one way or another.

Anyway, I thought you might be interested in the article that Joanne had published as a result of appearing on prime time tv:

www.sunderlandecho.com/news/Childbirth-sparked-mum39s-mental-hell.5741011.jp

Oh, just one more thing. I know it must be terribly frustrating for someone with severe dibilitating PND to be told PP is the most severe form of PND, but I did find that label quite useful when having to explain to people why I was in hospital for 3 weeks after my son was born. To be able to say I had a severe form of PND was much easier that explaining PP and I guess I was a little ashamed and reluctant to mention the word psychosis, since it is not really understood. But in reading other women's stories, it seems to me that even though the hell hole of psychosis during the initial onset of PP is absolutley terrible, most women with PP seem to recover quicker in the long term than women with severe PND. But it really depends on the individual and so many other factors that you can't say that in general terms.

WG, how was the MBU? Have you posted anywhere about your experiences that day? I'm visiting one next Thurs (29th).

[winegirl]

It was good thanks hun

The manager there was explaining how their term Perinatal Mental Health encompasses depression, PP, anxity, OCD etc.. and I told her how we call all these things PNI, and she thought it was great that we did that and offered a service for ladies and their families affected by all the different post natal issues! But yes, she did agree with me that she thinks it is wrong to label the severity of each illness, as each is different and the severity depends on the indivudual

I hope your visit goes well on Thursday! The one here is lovely, I hope yours is too? Let us know how you get on and what you think of it??

WG xx

[Bookwormprincess]

Just to let everyone know that Joanne also has her story out in BEST magazine which is out today (10th Nov), if you're interested.

She's certainly on a roll with all these interviews!

And what's really nice is that she's donating any money she gets to the MBU where she was treated.

[winegirl]

Thats Lovely xx