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Post by deborah on Feb 12, 2004 12:47:58 GMT
Dear matt iwas typing a reply to you when i've hit a button which has deleted my message or it may appear here so i'll finish what i was saying! Basically do you think she would go off with another bloke when being ill? From my point of view when i had PNI the last thing i wanted to do was meet another man or have sex with my husband or anyone else for that matter! Sex is usually one of the things to go which makes men feel even more not wanted as the closeness isn't there. being paranoid is a big part of PNI. And i suspect she is more ill than she is saying. Let her go to see a counsellor on her own. But you should go to one too, either the same one (which will give the counsellor some 'common ground' to work on) or one of your own. My feelings are she needs to see how ill she is as when you have PNI you are so wrapped up in your own thoughts and feelings you can't see your way out of your situation. it goes around and around in your head, mine was a never ending spiral of thoughts and i sought the opinion of anyone who would listen and try to make them agree that my husband was a complete xxxxxxx. Now i think i don't know how he put up with it, how on earth he stayed with me after all i put him through. Hopefully, when the medication starts to work and she has the time and space to say how she feels you will see a change in her., for the better. For now you must do whatever keeps you sane.You are the strong one in the family and you need to keep a clear head to make the decisions, keep your family together and watch out for your wife. When i advise the men on my helpline i always say i liken how their wife fels to this scenario. (anyone else who has recovered please tell me if i'm wrong) but it is a bit like when you get very drunk at a party or pub,you could be dancing on the tables etc!! and making decisions about where to go next, whether to take a taxi or doss at a friends house. But the next day you may have NO recollection of events or just a pasing 'snapshot ' of something. PNI is a bit like that. You will be going about your business and its only when you have recovered that you look back and see how things were. It maybe you remeber a 'snapshot' of something or you do not remember anything at all. Also the 'time reference' is out of place. I cannot remember much about my admission to Mum & Baby Unit or the time frame before or just after. But i was walking talking and making decisions about which nursery to send my daughter to. Does this make sense? Does this ring true for anyone else who has or has had PNI??
There are some good books to read which are helpful one of which is a new one by a lady called Cara Aitkin. Its called 'AT HOME NO-ONE HEARS YOU SCREAM'. you can get it from amazon via the web.
Hope that helps. must go!! love to you and your family. You are not alone keep on this website for some strength. (One day when this is over and you are all ok again will you let us all know how it all went?-) Deborah xx
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Post by Julie on Feb 13, 2004 17:14:43 GMT
I have been reading this in tears because I have been suffering in silcence really since my son was born 7 and half weeks early and was in special care for a couple of weeks. My husband works away in Surrey for most of every week, he has two children from a previous marriage who come to us two weekends a month. i was made redundant from my job when it was time for me to go back to work and my precious grandmother died in May 03 and I was devastated because since my son was born she had been in a home for people with dimentia and I couldn't bring myself to take him to see her because my paranoid anxieties wouldn't let me. The guilt I felt at her never having seen him before she died is immense. I knew that for a long time I haven't been myself. I have since Ethan was born desperately tried to banish the most terrible thoughts that something would happen to him from my mind. I can't explain the terror I have with me with one day i will lose him and i made a pact with god for him to take me instead. I have never been able to tell my husband about how I have felt. I felt guilty, stupid, ashamed. I was an intelligent woman who had worked up until i was 35 yrs old at director level and suddenly I couldn't close my eyes without seeing my son rushing out into traffic and being run down. Or if he had a cold or a temperature I couldn't sleep for worrying. Even tho he's two now he still sleeps terribly and in our room and at about 2am he'll get into bed with us. I have tried to be normal and at times have felt that I was getting better i didn't go to the doctors, didn't want pills and I did try to tell my husband once but we were out and i started to get upset so he said "we'll talk about it later" we never did. his work takes him away most days and evenings and also abroad. it's hard to strike up a conversation about depression, when all you want to do is have a nice weekend together. unlike some of the messages I have read, I haven't not wanted my husband, or stopped loving him. In fact I love him so much it hurts, sometimes we have had some brilliant, memorable times together, just like old times, and sometimes i have lost myself in a bottle of wine and snapped at him, we have argued and i have said terrible things to him. Anyway, I think I've gone on enough, I just wanted to post a message to Matt to say I hope your wife reads this, because on Sunday, my husband came into the house sat down and told me he didn't love me anymore. he said i wasn't the girl i married, that when we argued i said nasty things to him that he couldn't forget. i tried to tell him what i tried to tell him before, that i thought I had post natal depression, but he told me not to blame it onto Ethan. I asked him to stay and talk, told that our wonderful marriage was worth saving, but he packed a bag and left. I had to let an estate agent walk around my house today to value it and go and look at another smaller house because i can't affort to stay where I am, and my husband "text" me in the week to say it was over., he didn't love me and he wasn't coming back. So matt's wife, please give your marriage a chance and be thankful that you're husband wants to understand and make things better. Mine left and didn't look back.
Julie
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Post by Matt on Feb 15, 2004 7:54:52 GMT
Julie, I feel for you, you seem to have gone through the same experience as myself, but with PND as well, At least I still have something to hold onto. It must be terrible for you. I hope everything works out for you.
I havent written for a few days, after comments Claire made that I am analysing too much. I think I am still analysing everything, but not writing it down. I suppose things haven't been too bad lately so I have managed to keep things together.
Valentines day was a bit weird though. I went over the top and brought her a gold/diamond ring, front row concert tickets for one of her favourite acts, 12 red roses and set of lingerie that she wanted. She seemed over the moon if not a little guilty. I wrote some nice poems in her card that she seemed to appreciate.
The last few days she has been very sociable with me, although there is still a distinct lack of closeness. she looks forward to the foot massages and pampering that I give her, but makes no attempt to cuddle up to me or give any attention back. This is very hard and makes me feel quite hollow, although I keep saying to9 myself give it time. She seems to also go over the top to cuddle up to the kids and almost seems to be looking to me for a reaction as if to make me jelaous. From what people have posted her, it makes me think she wants me to cuddle up to her, but when I try I get the full blown rejection. I think this is the illness not allowing me in.
Like most women with PNI, the feeling of being trapped with no end to the current circumstances, I too am feeling as though I cannot see any end to the situation. I feel as though my relationship with my wife is on borrowed time, although I am still hanging onto the hope that she will get better. I understand that there is no quick fix, but hopefully in the next few months, enough will change to make me feel, that everything will work out well. I am completely encouraging and caring on the surface as far as my wife is concerned, but underneath it like a bubbling volcano. Hopefully I can keep a lid on it.
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Post by Dana on Feb 15, 2004 14:30:06 GMT
Dear Matt,
Well I really don't see how you CAN keep a lid on it. I have been reading all your postings and at the risk of going against the 'caring, sharing' tone of this site - don't you think enough's enough? Just because someone has PND, doesn't mean they can't think, act or be made aware of their responsibilities to others. From your description of the situation it sounds as if on the one hand you feel you can't expect anything of your partner, but anderneath it all, you actually expect the world of her! She might have felt under enormous pressure having all these gifts at a time when she might not be able to express affection!!!I think however well you try to internalise your frustration =- it must be very palpable to her. YOu are also making a lot of assumptions about why she does/behave/react the way she does. Maybe you need a forum, mediated by someone else - where she can feel safe enough to tell you why she behaves/reacts in the way that she does. Again, at the risk of sounding harsh - do you think that perhaps you got locked into the part of the 'carer' a bit too much? If there is any way out of this vicious circle you're both locked into, it might be you who has to take the initiative, and it might mean ditching the 'nice guy' part for a while and expressing what you want (and by that I don't mean 'losing it' with her...). Maybe couple's counselling is something that needs to happen before one of you snaps. I think you might be surprised by what could follow. Sorry again if this sounds insensitive, I do know how incredibly difficult and sensitive these things can be.X Dana
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Post by AC on Feb 15, 2004 20:37:45 GMT
Hi Matt, Im affraid that i totally agree with Dana.I think its time to forget the ' mr nice guy ' And be a bit firmer.If your wife is suffering with this awful PND i can really understand what she is going through.And as much as i wish my partner was as supportive as you say you are,i think even i would feel a bit smothered with all the nice attention you seem to give.
I had a bouquet delivered and a huge teddy on valentines day which was fantastic and i really did appreciate it,however just a bit of time together and a few loving words would have meant just as much.
It almost sounds as if you are trying to buy her love,but she still seems to be pushing you away,so its obviously not working.
You say that she can show affection towards the children and look at you to see your reaction.That is really not on.She sounds as if she is playing mind games with you,and that is not right.
I know every woman is different and can suffer in different ways with PND,but in my position i can still be loving towards my partner,and i dont push him away even though i felt very let down by his lack of support when our baby was tiny,and still feel let down now he is 16 months.
I also think that you are clinging on so tightly to your marriage as you are scared of losing it,and i dont think it is healthy.You seem to be doing all the work.
Maybe i am wrong,but having read your postings,it has come across that way.
i hope i dont sound to harsh.
xx
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Post by Matt on Feb 16, 2004 12:05:34 GMT
I read your latest comments with suprise, at first I thought they were a little harsh and a bit extreme for where our relationship is at. But on reflection maybe it is time to move things on and perhaps I am blocking out the parts that I dont want to see. I must look to the future now and see where we are going.
Currently things seemed to be moving along in an amicable way and perhaps what ever will be will be, I think I am probably being a little selfish and thinking of my own interest.
The most important thing in my life is my Family and when something like this comes along and undermines the foundations, it is unbearable and my character has almost transformed.
Thanks for all the support and advice people have given a lot has been comforting.
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Post by deborah on Feb 19, 2004 0:31:29 GMT
Dear Matt , Its Deborah here again. I don't know from your last reply if you are going to read this again or not but i'll put something anyway.
I can see where the others are coming from by writing about' 'no more Mr Nice Guy'' .
In general though only you will know deep down what your relationship was like before the children and what personality changes/events have happened since the PND/birth of your last child.
Only you will know what your 'behaviour' was towards each other, ie how you argued, what about, how you made up after a row etc.
So you will be able to see if this is your wife being ill or not. Is it worth discussing this with your GP again? Do you have a good trustworthy male friend who can give you another perspecive on this?
Can you confide in your family a brother, your mum,or whoever?
If all else seems hopeless have you tried getting away for a couple of days? Say just a weekend on your own or with a mate just to 'be', think things through etc so it gives you some time out and it gives your wife the ability to see what her life could be like if you were not around?
That could work both ways- she may miss you or get on without you and vice versa.
At least then you will both have 'broken the cycle' you seem to be in at the moment, and may be able to seek a solution through all of this.
Have you organised a counsellor just for you? It may be worth a try, even if it just gives you another view of what's going on.
If after trying everything you can think of, even waiting for her to recover fully (by that i mean at least 6 months off medication and certified as well by her GP) and you have both tried counselling, talking to family and friends.
If after all of that nothing is right then you can honestly say you did all you could to save your relationship. IF the inevitable does happen, (and no-one is saying it will) at least you have done your best and you can rest assured in years ahead if questions are asked that you did all you could. Then you do what makes you happy, still be there for the children and move on.
Sometimes its difficult to see whats around you when this illness strikes. At least if the break/time out does anything it will make you see your situation with fresh eyes. Don't go through this alone. Enlist some help from your family and/or friends.You have to try everything for the sake of the children. Look after yourself- I hope things change for the better and keep using this forum! love deborah x
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Post by Matt on Feb 21, 2004 19:04:17 GMT
As at today, things are a lot better, my wife seems almost back to her normal self and cannot do enough for me.
she went out with her friend last night, but kissed me good bye and told me she wouldn't be late back. Its fantastic it seems as though over the past 48-hours she has gone full circle. I know she will have bad days again, but I thought I would post for all of those people who are suffering similar. Hang in there it is worth it.
Thanks for all your comments, Going through this experience has made me a much more worldly wide person and I appear to have come out of my idealist world and seen the other side of lifes hardships. Woke up and smelt the coffee and I am better prepared for what life throws at me know.
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Post by deborah on Feb 21, 2004 19:56:06 GMT
Dear matt,
I am so glad for you and your family, can you put this down to the antidepressants?
What do you think has done this?
Did you use any of the advice from, all the people on the forum?
Or was it just waiting for the medication to ''kick in'' ??
Whatever it was, i am so pleased for you. Long may it continue!
Love and blessings always Deborah x
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Post by Matt on Mar 1, 2004 7:52:33 GMT
Sorry My wife is now over her depresents and has told me I am not the one for her, she said the anti-depresants made her think straighter and calculated.
I am gutted. Just thought I would inform people.
Life is a B*tch.
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TinaC
New Member
I am 43 first time mum with a baby 13 months. I am trying to survive PND
Posts: 15
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Post by TinaC on Mar 1, 2004 21:40:00 GMT
Hi Matt,
I have just read your posting. All I can say to you is when you PND you often say and do things you don't really mean.
Don't despair think about what Deborah said.
Life is swings and roundabouts and so is depression you have your ups and downs and you often go round in circles. Your wife might think she is over the depression, she might be, but it to early to say everything is over. Work at it, stand by her. True love is understanding during the bad times.
Words are often used to envoke a reaction only time will tell if this is the case.
What I am trying to say is don't give up and keep posting we are all here to support you.
Take care Tina
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Post by Julianne on Mar 3, 2004 17:43:45 GMT
Hello Matt
When I had my first child I suffered with PND and to be honest didn't realise what it was until I had it again with my next pregnancy. I genuinely thought I was going mad and that I was an evil monster. How could I have this beautiful baby and feel these terrible thing towards him. I was very young and everyone was always telling me how well I had adapted to motherhood that I felt unable to really say how I felt. The father of my first child was never around so I never saw what an effect it could have on a relationship until now. My marriage has TEXT broken up twice. It was only my husbands determination that kept us together. I never thought how hard it has been for him. He has calmed the panic atacks, sat with me when I sobbed all night, reasurred me when I thought I was going mad, listened to my most intimate thoughts and not re-coiled in horror. I can see this at the moment because I'm having an o.k. time but when my times are bad I forget all that he has done and push him away. This is through no fault of his own, it's me. When I'm feeling bad and I can't control the thoughts then I guess I feel that I don't deserve his love and push him away. It's almost as if my pain is contagious I'm hurting so bad that I don't want to pass it on to him. However he then feels rejected that I don't want him. It's a vicious circle! I hope any of this helps amd I thank you for making me realise what I have
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Post by Julianne on Mar 3, 2004 17:44:29 GMT
Hello Matt
When I had my first child I suffered with PND and to be honest didn't realise what it was until I had it again with my next pregnancy. I genuinely thought I was going mad and that I was an evil monster. How could I have this beautiful baby and feel these terrible thing towards him. I was very young and everyone was always telling me how well I had adapted to motherhood that I felt unable to really say how I felt. The father of my first child was never around so I never saw what an effect it could have on a relationship until now. My marriage has nearly broken up twice. It was only my husbands determination that kept us together. I never thought how hard it has been for him. He has calmed the panic atacks, sat with me when I sobbed all night, reasurred me when I thought I was going mad, listened to my most intimate thoughts and not re-coiled in horror. I can see this at the moment because I'm having an o.k. time but when my times are bad I forget all that he has done and push him away. This is through no fault of his own, it's me. When I'm feeling bad and I can't control the thoughts then I guess I feel that I don't deserve his love and push him away. It's almost as if my pain is contagious I'm hurting so bad that I don't want to pass it on to him. However he then feels rejected that I don't want him. It's a vicious circle! I hope any of this helps amd I thank you for making me realise what I have
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Post by Carol on Mar 12, 2004 10:35:41 GMT
Matt, Hang in there. I have put my husband through hell. I've asked him to leave, I've slept separately from him, but I wouldn't be without him. I know it's horrid- but he is the only safe person I can hit out at. I'd get the sack from work, friends would disown me, but I know he'll still be there for me. If ever I needed somebody in my life - the he is the one. I sometimes don't know I've done things, but at other times deliberately do. Please hang on in there. Carol
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