Parteners Diary

[Matt]

My wife has had PND for about 12/18 months, partly down to her resistance to admit it and my ignorance and being tied up in setting up my own business we have only just come to terms that she has got depression. Our second son is nearly three now, my wife wants a divorce, but is seeing if the medication will help before rushing into anything. She still believes it is because she is unhappy with me that she has depression. May be this is true, but I have always done whats best for family and tried to put them first. I am putting in extra attention for the last few months and have been on a rollacoaster of emotions. She says she cringes if I go near her and confides in her friends, when all I want to do is help and be there for her.

I have posted a topic here before and have received some excellent advice, which has helped me not to fall into depression myself. But daily I have new challenges that I am not sure of the answers, I thought if I posted on this thread regularlly it would help me to get through the bad days. And also any advice or reassurance that anyone can give along the way would be more than grateful.

My big worry today is - Is it me that has caused the depression or is it PND? I have not been a bad husband, although perhaps I have left all the kids decisions to my wife, I am trying to address and rebalance now. My wife is convinced it is down to me and the depression will lift if we split. Whats worse is she went out with friends last night and came home more convinced that I am the cause. I give her the freedom she desires even though I am envious of her close relationship with her friends and spent most of last night lonely and sick in the stomach. I also feel that her closest friends lifestyle of free and independant seems a much happier place to be for my wife. I am snapping at my kids more than before, but my wife feels that I have been too soft with them anyhow. I have decided I need to see the doctor myself as I am starting to feel under extreme stress.

Thanks for reading, any advice appreciated, I do read all responses and I will continue to post my highs and lows, so if any other Partner is in the same predicament maybe they can draw heart from it as I have with other posts.

[AC]

Hi Matt,

Us women always think that PND hits us,however i suppose it affects both parties in a relationship.The strain of the wife being miserable and down and then the husband who feels rejected.

My situation is different i guess.You say that you have tried to be a supportive husband and have tried your best.I feel that my partner is so different,i dont feel he is supportive and he certainly doesnt behave like a brilliant dad to our son.Sometimes i wonder what it would be like if our son was a complete monster,how the hell would i cope without the help.Im lucky that our son is so good,sleeps right through the night and has done since he was 6 weeks old.The only time he is really miserable is when he is ready for a sleep.

I dont think my partner appreciates how good our son is,or he chooses to take it for granted.

Does your wife know that you are posting on this website ? Is there any chance of her reading what you have wrote ? Maybe it would be good for her to read it,and understand that you are suffering aswell.

As women i think we all go out with our friends and have a whinge about our partners,i know i do ! However in your situation,perhaps her friends are loading the bullets,then she is coming home to you and fireing them.Are her friends single ?

I dont know if this has helped at all,probably not.You are using this site in desperation to try and save your marriage so you must feel that there is something to save. Can you discuss your feelings with her ?

Alison.

[Dana]

Dear Matt,

I really feel for you, I really do. I want to say one thing to you which is quite categorical - No-one - absolutely no-one- can cause depression in another person (bar, peadophiles and such like). I foyur wife thinks that you are the cause of her depression she will find out otherwise, and I hope she doesn't sink even deeper. Depression can be aggrevated by circumstances, even encouraged by them, but not created by someone else. Depression is something that is born within teh self. Sure - maybe your wife will find out she is in the wrong relationship - who knows? Maybe therapy will bring that up, but it is not your fault. You haven't caused it.

What you are going through sounds extremely painful as well as stressful. I don't think you need medication, as you are not suffering from depression. Quite naturally, you are reacting to a very volatile and distressing situation. I think maybe you should consider talking to someone who will help you look at things at the moment and try to understand what is happening. Somewhere where you can talk freely and have the space to be very honest about how you feel. It's very, very hard to be beside someone who is going through any kind of depression, and I'm sure you must feel quite resentful at times! But please, don't let the GP fob you off with anti-depressants, becayse this is the easiest solution for them. If you could possible afford it, please find a private psychotherapist who specialises in Crisis Intervention. If you need some tips on how to seek them, e-mail me here and I'll get back to you. Please do this for yourself as well as for your kids. I know it must seem like a very dark tunnell at the minute, but you will come through it!!! I don't mean to sound like a bossy old cow, it's just that your story is really touching and I so hope that things will get better for you.

Good luck,

Dana

[Matt]

Thanks Dana and Alison, your thoughts have given me some comfort. Sorry for spelling partners wrong, I used to have problems spelling fasteners.

Today has been quite hard, I went to play football until 12.00 this morning, leaving my kids and wife in bed. She told me she got up shortly after I left and done the ironing. She has been trying to put on a brave face on things today, and made a big effort to be close to the kids. She made it quite clear, I should keep my distance. I was abnormally aggressive at football and got sent off, obviously things are effecting me.

She saw me reading these responses again and although she didn't want to look, she told me what you doing reading things on there for its me with Depression. I explainded that it helps me understand what shes going through. I told her to use this site, but she says its not PND its me thats brought on the depression.

We all went swimming today, the kids and wife seemed to have a good time, although again she had no interest in involving me in the activities. I cooked the Sunday Lunch tonight and washed up, I haven't eaten mine. she left most of hers. I flipped at the kids today for throwing his dinner accross the table, I didnt strike out, but felt as though I had lost my temper ( I am normally quite tollerant and understanding) and it was a little worrying.

In response to Alisons question, her friends are single parents and some of them are re-entering into new serious relationships.

She has offered to baby sit for one, on valentines day, didn't ask or check with me, may be a little resentfulness creeping in. She has agreed to take me out for my birthday 22 Feb, I see this as quite important.

[Anne]

Hi Matt

I read your posting and the hair on the back of my niek stood on end. You and your wife seem to be at exactly the point my husband and I are at. I have had PND for 21 months and I am afraid to say I have changed into a different person - not the person he had pre-baby. But, like you he has complained little and tried through everything to be helpful. Unfortunately up until very revently I could not see that he had been helpful at all - i felt I was doing everything by myself and would therefore be better of without him.

We have talked about separating and he seems to find this much more upsetting than me, but I think PND makes you withdraw from feelings and it just annoys me that he tries to 'get involved' sometimes. This probably makes little sense to you but I can assure you your wife, like me just wants escape from this.

Like your wife, I also cannot bear my husband to come near me - to the point where I cringe if we touch by accident. I think that the problems are more than just PND but I have decided - for the sake of my young daughter - to ride out the PND storm and see how I feel when I am feeling better. No good decisions are made when your are not strong.

None of this may be helpful to you but you are definitely not alone - you should speak to my husband!

I agree that you should definitely ditch the thought that you caused the depression - she is just trying to hurt and blame you. I know this for sure because I do exactly the same. You would not believe the vicious things that come out and I really mean them.

I think the most important thing I have to say - because I could go on all night because you have hit a raw spot here - is that you MUST GET YOUR WIFE HELP. I know you say she doesn't think she has PND, but surely she is not willing to break up a family until she can be sure?

My husband harassed the health visitors for months until somebody eventually took him seriously. I did not know this at the time. Maybe that could be your first contact too. I think you will start to feel more positive if you start doing something about this.

You must look after yourself - your children and your wife (even if she doesn't admit it just now) do need you very much.

I am going to go now but would love to hear how you are doing.

Feel free to e-mail me at [e-mail] - airing your problems in public is horrible I know!

Take good care.

Anne x

[Claire B]

Matt

You write so well and seem very articulate. I have suffred from PND very badly but thankfully am now on the other side of it - hopefully!

The worst thing about depression is that a huge part of it is denial - denial that in the first instance you have it, and denial of the real cause, often looking to something-someone else to pin the blame on, and unfortunately your wife has pinned it on you. The old adage that "the ones closest to you" often get hurt the most is very true - you know her inside out (although it might not feel like it at the moment) and you know she has PND - you are the one person who lives with her and can see it. however she clearly doesn't want to see it, so is turning on the one person who can. Seh desperately needs treatment - for her to go ahead and seperate,making such a huge decision when she is unwell, she will live to bitterly regret it. I know because i nearly did it myself - we had been together for 6 years at that point. I think part of the reason for pushing partners out of the picture is that to "feel" any emotion is too painful, so our husbands get rejected, pushed out and blamed, plus are on the receving end of all the bitterness (You did this to me - deep down the feeing can be "you got me pregnant see what you have done") so you can see that intimacy is the last thing on the list. She desperately needs treatment. Imyself finally got help after mustering the courage to admit it to my GP, and we are finally getting married in April this year - after 8 years together, so it just shows that things really can come back from the brink of destruction.

please continue to post on this site, it also gives the rest of us an insight into what the husbands go through. unfortunately PND can be a selfish illness - and before all you women start shouting at me, i don't mean selfish in its worst self-indulgant form, i mean that at the time, we aren't capable of taking anything else on board other than trying to function ourselves, so evryone else gets left out in the cold. Hope to hear from you soon?

Claire

[Matt]

Thanks for posting Claire, your circumstances are very welcome and encouraging. My wife is currrently seeking help from her GP, she has been on medication for a week now, I can't see much improvement, but they did say it would take around 3 weeks and at least its progress

Anne your feedback and offer of an insight into my wifes thoughts are useful. I hope that you can build up some courage to offer your husband something to hold on to. Pig-headedly your husband like myself is probably seeing his rejection as a sign that you have got or desire another man. I would be interested in your thoughts; If you are interested in other relationships or If you are just not in that mind frame at all.

Sunday Evening turned out to be a little better, I watched my wife watching TV and every so often she would put her head in her hands (discretely) I could tell she was suffering. I sat next to her and told her I understood and offered to massage her feet (Something she loves). I got some oil out and she seemed to find it relaxing, but everytime I looked into her eyes I could see she was fighting back tears.

Monday I went to work, she got out of bed before I left which is an achievement, I dropped my eldest child off at school and she put took our youngest into child into the nursery/creche and did a couple of hours at the gym (something she had been cancelling lately).

I popped home at lunch time and we had a little chat, she was a little distant and withdrawn, but she said she was fine. My spirits weren't lifted too much. I had been thinking all night and day, am I a wimp, am I feeling sorry for myself, when I should be putting myself in my wifes shoes, she must be going through hell. I am selfish as well as a crap husband.

When I got home, my wife had taken the eldest child to his swimming lesson and on the way back had popped into her best friends, who had had a fall out with her new boy friend and needed a shoulder.

As soon as she came in I noticed a spark back in her eye, she wanted to tell me what had happened today. She had spoken on the phone to her other firend who lives some distance away, she had just gone into hospitatal to be started off on having there first child. She had been trying and spent a small fortune on IBF to have this child and things were not good, there was extreme complications and the likely hood was the child would die or be handicapped. (Its a cruel world) Due to bed shortages she had now been told she wouldn't be able to have the child until Friday (13th). A fortune teller told her she would have a single child a boy and this is a girl, so she expects the worse.

My dad telephoned her also and asked her to try and make me go to the doctors as he thought I looked ill and withdrawn. I have suffered with eating disorders in the past and feel as though I might not be eating properly. He also asked her, when she was popping around to see them, to which she replied when she was feeling better. This was a massive thing, my wife fell out with my family 12 months+ ago and until recently has not spoken or wanted anything to do with them since. She believes my family think she is not good enough for me. Maybe there is some truth in it, but they don't go out of the way to show it. But I can't chose my family and this is the way they are.

Why am I putting all this down, maybe its becuase the massive change in my wife today. I wanted to put it all down, incase there are similarities with other good days.

That night when we went to bed, I stroked her face and arms as usual to help her get to sleep. While doing it she thanked me (genuinely) and made slight moans of comfort. Wow, I remember clinching my fist and saying YES to myself. Also I woke in the night and found my wife cuddled up to me with her arm around me (there is a god).

I am not getting carried away I have had false dawns before, I know today may be and possibly will be a bad one, but I have a little light at the end of the tunnel.

[Lainey]

Oh Matt

Your posting brought a tear to my eyes. You sound like a wonderful husband and are doing everything right to help your wife.

Be patient with your wife, I too was distant with my boyfriend and blamed him for everything, constantly moaning and finding fault, but deep down I loved him desperately but just couldn't find the energy to let him know. Sometimes I would look at him without him knowing and so want to just wrap my arms around him and tell him I loved him, but I just couldn't do it. PND just drains you of all your emotions and feelings and caring for the baby/children takes every ounce of your strength.

It is great that you saw a spark in her, these sparks will get brighter and brighter and will eventually become a burning flame. This is the only way I can describe it. I used to feel I had a tiny little light in my head that kept trying to spark but just wouldn't stay alight, each time it sparked I could see a light at the end of this dark, gloomy tunnel, then it would go out again. But to have that 'lifted' feeling (albeit it only lasted a few seconds) was wonderful. Those sparks will get stronger and stay alight for longer - give it time, you're doing all the right things.

Keep posting Matt and let us know how your wife is doing. It is great that she is getting out and about and good on you for being such an understanding and caring husband, but make sure you take care of yourself also Matt.

Things will get better in time I promise.

Best wishes

Elaine

[claire]

Matt

You are being an utterly fantastic husband, you really are, but you sound very anxious yourself (well of course - i would be too!) Try not to take it to hard if your wife at times appears withdrawn or down - even though it sounds like she has begun the slow climb back, there of course will be times when she feels a little down again - don't take this a sign that all your support and effort has gone to waste and that it is the begining of the end. hopefully you will find (like we did) that when i did feel down, these periods got shorter and shorter, and less severe. it took about 2 weeks for me to feel the benefits of the medication, and 3 for them fully to kick in.

i'm not saying that at 3 weeks you are totally cured - but you know you have definately been given a huge leg up back to your normal self. what lainey said about the "spark" is absolutely true (and very well written lainey - very articulate explaination there!!) In answer to your feelings about your wife's feelings to you, and that your rejection makes you feel she is interested elsewhere...well for me nothing could be further from my mind, intimacy of any kind was out of the question as to "feel" anything seemed to painful and raw - please try not to bring that whole can of worms into this situation, you could make things very complicated - infidelity for me just was not on the agenda. for me it was like if i didn't want to sleep with my partner, why on earth would i want to sleep with anyone else?

I can see exactley why she was holding back the tears when you were massaging her feet. sometimes i found that whenever i did allow any affection or intimacy, the feelings all well up and come flooding out - even when whatever affection you are having is pleasant, it just makes you very emotional and you can't begin to articulate evrything you are feeling at that moment as it feels so complicated, so the tears build up.

Please do make sure you are eating well - this will keep you in good shape and also help with any depressive feelings you have, especially as you say you have suffred eating disorders before. My brother suffred from depression quite badly in his early twenties, and found that when he made sure to look after his health and diet (which i thnk was a real effort for him at times) then he could battle with his depression easier. Please let us know how everythign is going - it really is a bit of a journey but it sounds like you are both on the right path.

Claire

[deborah]

Dear Matt,

I have just read your story. I've had PNI twice and while i was in the mum & baby Unit me and my husband fought like mad. we would argue on the 'phone every time.
I was admitted with my baby boy and he was at home with our daughter. Each day i had an 'issue' it was my awful childhood one minute, him the next. I was out of control and i didn;'t know where i was or what i was doing or thinking for that matter.
Over 2 years we fought, he moved out with his friends, moved in again, left me, came back this went on for nearly 3 years.I wanted a divorce. I felt he caused everything my life was in tatters and i didn't know what to do anymore.
Someone must have been watching over us as i'm glad to say we got through it. After i came off the venlafaxine i was put on prozac just in case i had a relapse. From then on i felt better. I was able to 'feel' emotions again.
I don't know if this has happened to anyone else but i was in a neutral state for ages and then i came off the tablets and began to feel the subtle emotions we feel in response to others. I began to 'see' the small signs we make as part of our body language, before then when i had PNI and went on medication i couldn't do any of that. My husband would have to be in a state before i realised how he felt and then although i acknowledged it i couldn't feel anything in order to help him.
It may be the case that she is ill, her friends don't realise her behaviour is part of her PNI?
Try and see your/her GP together and suggest some help ie RELATE or use the practise counsellor.
Do you still love her? Do you think she deep down loves you?
It may be her 'pulling away from you' is not outright rejection but just that she cant function emotionally because of the PNI. She may go out with her friends and 'appear' to have a great time but is she just in denial about her illness? Is she distracting herself as she is scared to admit just how bad she really is?
I'm not putting questions here for you to answer on this forum but just to say think about these for yourself.
Or put them to her in a session with RELATE or whoever.
You didn't give her PNI. It's come from having a child and if only we knew what caused it. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. It's the worst thing i've ever had to deal with.
It's also been hard for my husband.We are now making up for lost time and talking alot.It will take time but if the love is still there and perhaps you can get away for a weekend just to talk?
Hope you get sorted. Well done you for being brave enough to say how you feel, take care love deborah xx

[Matt]

Thanks for your Comments Deborah, Lainey and Claire.

I must sound perfect, I am not without faults, but I am just trying to put things right and writing things down seem to help me see both sides of the story. Peoples inputs are a great plus and please don't stop offering advice. You are much more expert than I and maybe at the end of this I can pass my experiences onto others.

Today has been a bit indifferent, My wife seemed to be warming to my advances and opinions, she has been under a lot of stress today, she has been stuck in while we had a new cooker fitted and I was at work. Apparantly the installer was a miserable git, to make things worse the cooker would not fit and he had to leave it half fitted.

My new car was delivered today, and that seemed to give her and me a bit of a lift. To make matters worse when she went back to the cooker store they said they had not got one that fitted and the kids decided they would cause maximum disruption. At least she looked to me for support, which although I did not like see her getting upset did give me a little encouragement.

I almost set us back ten steps though. When I finished work, I went with her to the store, the kids were pushing it and the store were being less than helpful. I could see her getting stressed and my own patience was getting stretched. To make matters worse the manager was trying to sell us down the river saying we had unpacked the cooker so we needed to keep it or accept a low refund as it was a special deal. I was fuming as the dimensions on the cooker were incorrect. I started to push my point quite firmly and even aggressively. My wife who thought I was always to soft in this situation felt things were getting on top of her and was ready to simple accept the managers decision.

I had to overrule the managers decision and stormed out telling them I needed time to discuss things. I think my wife was a little embarrased, which made me feel worse. I appologiesed in the car and told her I sorry but the manager was ripping us off.

When we got home she was distressed about the thought of being without a cooker. I explained my point of view and demonstrated how we were being taken for a ride, in a more controlled environment.

She agreed with me and I telephoned the manager and tried to get a deal, we seemed to crack a deal where both parties was happy and I think I saved the situation.

My wife although stressed with things is still looking to me for support and I won't let her down. Generally, as lot of possitives today, but tommorow may be different day (fingers crossed).

[deborah]

Matt, well done you!!
Do you have anyone who can help you take your work off your shoulders for a while?
Or someone who can care for the children just for a day or so?

Failing that may i recommend a book to you which is very easy to read, and good at helping you through this type of situation?
It is from the RELATE series. It's called Babyshock! your relationship survival guide by Elizabeth Martyn.
ISBN:0 09 185659 0 publisher Vermillion .
If you feel a bit self conscious buying /ordering it you can get it over the internet try Amazon or better still National Childbirth Trust website on www.nctms.co.uk
NCT have some good books to order.
Has your wife read up on this subject? Has she anyone to confide in (apart from her friends) about PNI?
Maybe if she has some kind of support/emotional support besides yourself from a postnatal group/her Health Visitor/NCT postnatal facilitator it may help her to recover.
Has she had a change of medication?Or the offer of a counsellor/psychotherapist from the GP?
Perhaps this may help to take the burden off you for a while and get her to see what is going on from someone outside of the relationship?
Finally, please try and think about this -just because a woman talks to her friends doesn't mean they are 'calling you fit to burn'.
They may be telling her both sides of the situation and helping her see what she could lose by not being with you.
I would really try and get help from your GP, i don't mean tablets (unless that is what you really wanted) but a good practice counsellor/outside carer like relate just to give you both some emotional breathing space. By doing that maybe she will see your suffering and understand that you are in this together. That this is what PNI does to relationships, this is the side of this illness no-one understands as it is so destructive.
Taking this out on your husband is unfortuneltly a common feature of PNI. Hang on in there and take whatever emotional help you can from this site to get you through each day.
Best wishes to you both, love Deborah xx

[Matt]

Deborah, Thanks again for the feedback, She has only just started taking medication for a long time she was in denial. the doctor did say after 1 month to go back and he would discuss speaking to a consellor. I would desperately like to be there but my Wife is adiment she does not want me there.

Today has been a bit down from yesterday, I have been in working away today, my wife went to the gym this afternoon but moaned that the girls there are bitchy 'one minute friendly one minute offish'. Maybe they were but my wife has said that since she got ill she has been suspecting everyone is talking about or looking at her. Does PND make you uneccessarily paranoid?

I came home, had my tea and went straight to the gym, as my wife had arranged to go on the sun-bed with a friend and then out for a couple of drinks later. She seemed pleasant, but I couldnt really gage.

I have just come back from the gym and my wife was sitting coat on, waiting to go, even though she wasn't going for another 15 minutes. She had made an effort and dressed casual but smart. You notice little details when your minds looking for answers. As she went out of the door, she looked at me as if expecting me to say something like 'What time will you be back?. Don't be out to late!' like I normally do. For some reason I resisted. I thought it to be intrusive and I hadn't really had chance to gauge her mood. So I just said see you.

For 2 minutes after she had gone I thought what am I going to do now, will I sit around wondering about things? Insecurity is a terrible thing.

So I came and wrote about it, and to be honest its focused my mind. Can't wait for her to come back safe.

[Wendy]

Hi Matt

Just for a change I don't have a whole heap to say!
(pretty tired just now).

Re your question "does PND/PNI make women paranoid"

My answer: "yes definitely"

I never felt so paranoid as when I was sick. Feelings of not being a good enough wife and good enough Mother
haunted me constantly. I thought that my husband deserved much better than the mess that I was.

Hope this helps Matt. Keep talking here - a safe place for you to express yourself during a time when your
wife can't deal with your stuff on top of her own.
People can only give to others when they have extra to give (like an overflow effect).

Best of luck with your wife's medication. It will take time initially but could/should make all the difference stabilising or balancing her moods.

Thoughts with you and your family
Wendy

[Claire]

Matt,

You are doing so well but can i recommend one thing? it seems you are evaluating progess on a day to day, if not hour-by-hour basis - this wil put you on a rollercoaster ride which will exhaust you - recovery takes a long time and this level of in depth analysis of your wife's moods, conversation etc every day, you just can't keep that up, you will end up making yourself sick with worry. can i suggest instead of mentally reviewing each day and scrutnising things, that you try to step back and maybe just look back over the week and see how things are, then move on to the next week (i know this is so much easier said than done when you feel so much is at stake...) there are still going to be an awful lot of good days and bad days.

Also, if this helps at all, i also didn't want my partner to come with me - sometimes i needed to talk on my own to someone who didn't know me and i knew that when i left that room, it was just between me and a stranger really. it's not that she is not wanting you there because she's going to talk about you, i found it easier to talk properly on my own and be more honest with myself and my doctor - if my partner was there, i would be concious of frightening him with what i might say, or worrying him further as he might not quite grasp what i was trying to articulate and i would have to go through it all again later. i hope you understand.

Claire