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Post by Neil on Jan 29, 2003 16:22:45 GMT
My mother suffered very badly with PND after the birth of my older sister. She was hospitalised for a period. She fell pregnant with me 6 months after giving birth to my sister and attempted to kill me in the womb several times by jumping off the stairs. She said she couldn't face the PND a second time. Thankfully she did but when she became pregnant a 3rd time she had an abortion. Does anyone have any sources of information on similar case so that I can better understand how she felt and help me deal with it better? Thanks.
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Post by Veritee on Jan 29, 2003 22:34:36 GMT
Hi Neil
My heart goes out to you - what can I say - I feel for you as a child of a mother so depressed but also I have to live with the fact I planned my babies death and how I would do it simply hundreds of times when I was depressed between her birth and her being about 3 years old.
My 'baby' is now a happy healthy (mentally healthy as well as physically) 13 year old who I love to bits. But I to was too scared ever to have another, until she was about 9 that is by which time I was entering the menopause so could not conceive again!
Scared for me but also really/mostly scared for the baby I might have. You could say I was lucky and did not have to face this, I did not conceive, but had I done so I would probably have chosen to have had an abortion.
Believe me I 'hate' the thought of abortion. I feel it is killing and I would have this on my conscious for life - but - I could not have given birth to another baby and had her or him adopted as rightly or wrongly I could not have endured this and I needed to be sane enough to be able to bring up for the living child I already had - so probably the choice I would have made would have been an abortion had I got pregnant again.
The issues are so complex. But think on this - NO ONE WOULD CHOOSE TO BE IN THIS POSITION.
One thing I do know your mother would not have chosen to be in the position she was in! In a perfect world she would have wanted to not to have ever had PND, she would have wanted ALL her children - no woman actually wants to have an abortion, it is only at absolute best the only solution you have after the event - but unfortunately she did have PND, so as you say you now have to deal with it.
To fall pregnant only 6 months after having a baby with which you have PND is a drastic position to be in. I am not sure I would have survived such an event. I feel as a past suffer the need to explain to you how awful and serious PND is but this is my agenda – not yours.
How old are you? How long ago was this? Do you have any children? Did your mother herself tell you about her attempts to abort you or did you learn about it some other way?
I feel it is telling you use the words ‘attempted to kill’ rather than ‘abort’ says something although I am not sure exactly what.
I understand if you are angry. In fact I understand very well. My own mother had PND and several female relatives also suffered it. There is no proof or even theory that it is hereditary so perhaps it is just because it is more common than people think - but many of my family have had it.
I was quite unforgiving of my mother in my early adulthood until I got it myself and then at first I saw her as a heroine as she had three children and brought them up as well she could – but then having talked to her now she is in her 80’s I realised there was no legal abortion then and she would not have known how to get an illegal one and few contraceptives that worked and my father would never had agreed to abortion so she had little choice.
You never said if your mother loves you now, how she feels about you and how you feel about her?
If you want to write more I would be happy to reply. But I also have to say that if you are over 18 you are now and adult so you have to sort it out. Your mother was responsible for you as a child but she is not responsible for how you feel now. I hope this all makes sense - it is from the heart.
Love Veritee
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Post by Neil on Jan 30, 2003 16:04:48 GMT
Hi Veritee,
Thanks for your kind reply. To answer your questions, I am 40 years old, married with no children and I love my mother very much. Fortunately she loves me too and has never been anything other than a great mother. A little quirky for sure but very loving and supportive. I used the word "kill" because that was the word she used when she told me (only 6 months ago). She was very happy when she told me - I had given her a present she had wanted for a long time and she said "and to think I tried to kill you....." A strange response indeed. Anyway, my wanting to understand more about PND and how it can drive a woman to such depths of depression are really more to help me understand more about my childhood and how that has affected my relationship with women in general. My main childhood memories are of violence against my mother and sister (from my father) which has resulted in me trying to be a Sir Galahad for any woman I find in trouble which is not always conducive to a stable married life. I'm getting there in terms of understanding what drives my repsonses and I am sane (honest) and probably better off than many so no need to worry. Thanks again, Neil
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Post by Veritee on Jan 31, 2003 0:43:29 GMT
Hi Neil
I am so glad you replyed.
I am sure you are sane and I am sure you are OK.
If you are 40 I guess your mother is in her 60s or 70s. I am 50 and mine is now 80 and I am just begining to hear from her some truiths about my childhoood. My father was also violent to her but not to me. My mother often says strange things when we talk of the past as yours did.
I just felt your message came from the heart and deserved a full reply. As I said these issues are so complex
I hope my reply did not offend, as I said it came from my heart also and I probably said too much about my own issues. However what you said was relevant to my relationship with my own daughter.
As to information about simular cases - no I do not know of any info - most of the women I have contact with have very young children and I have never heard of a study done on the adult children of depressed mothers. A very interesting area and one that should be explored (and I say that as a child of a depressed mother myself)
Just a thought Maybe you do not have to be Sir Galahad Most women I know can look after themselves and ironically this even applies when they have PND
All the best Veritee
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Post by Matilda on Feb 3, 2003 20:54:53 GMT
Hi Neil,
Sorry to hear about you and your mothers experience.
I thought if maybe I told you some of my experience with PND then it may help you understand a little of what your mother went through and how PND can change the normalist (is that a word!!) of women into well.... something else. I am not to good with the timing of this so sorry if I jump around a lot.
I was diagnosed with PND when my son was 3 months old. I did have a very difficult pregnancy, spent over 3 months in hospital with pre-eclampcia, I had a very difficult birth, not a good time to find out you have a miss shaped pubic bone, them Matthew went to special care for a while. When I finally got him home he started to scream. He did this for about 8-10 hours a day. I kept taking him to the doctors just to be told it was colic. a neurotic new mother. I knew it wasn't colic as colic babies cry at the same time every day for about 1-3 hours. after about 2 months of this I got a new doctor who said it was a milk allergy and put him on Soya milk. He was a new baby within 24 hours. Really calm and placid. That's when I went down hill.
I was put on anti-depressants and referred to a support group. The health visitor decided that I was TO depressed to join the group as I may make the other women worse. I was also given a psychiatrist who I didn't like. I would go in and say I was fine and leave again. She was too busy to even care or look at me!!
When Matthew was 7 or 8 months old I decided that I couldn't take any more and I tried to kill myself. I took an overdose and ended up in A & E. Two days later I was in a mother and baby psychiatric unit.
I don't want to go into too much detail and boar you silly but over the next 2 years I took in total 4 overdoses, tried to slit my wrists and tried to hang myself a couple of times. I also started to self harm. I honestly believed that if I cut deep enough I would get a big puff of gas come out and my life would be normal again!!
I can remember I would sit and imagine how I would kill Matthew. (sorry this is really hard for me to write) I used to fantasies about it. I didn't want this baby to live, he had done this to me. I would also beg and plead with my husband to put him up for adoption. All I knew is that things were fine before he came along so if he went then things would be back to normal.
My husband took a total of two years off work to look after me and Matthew. And social services wouldn't let me look after Matthew at all by myself. Which was understandable. I had a babysitter to come and sit with me while my husband and Matthew would go out and do the shopping. When thing got really bad or I needed to go back into hospital Matthew would say this his grand parents or he would go into foster care.
When Matthew was 15 months old I fell pregnant again, I was on the pill, this was a huge shock. I couldn't look after myself or Matthew let alone a new baby. I was lucky and miscarried at 10 weeks. I know that makes me sound really horrible but I don't think I could have gone through the pregnancy again. I felt like and alien was growing in side me and I wanted to get a knife and cut it out. So I guess I was lucky that the baby died because I think if I had started to feel it move inside me I would have killed it myself. (I have now been sterilised as I know if I did fall pregnant again I would have no choice but to have an abortion)
The whole time I became agoraphobic I couldn't leave the house with out my husband, I couldn't answer the door or phone and was really paranoid that someone would get me. I would walk around the bed and scream and jump back as I could feel someone's hands trying to get my feet.
After I spent six months in hospital (on a few different occasions) I had to have ECT (don't like talking about that).
My son is now 3 1/2 years old and for the first time I can say that I love him. My life is now back to normal, whatever that is. I am back to work full time and Matthew is in full time child care. I know I cant look after him myself, I mean I am really good with him, but I have decided that being at home with him is not me. I am not an at home mum. And for the first time in years I can say I am happy again.
I hope I haven't boarded you to death but I hope it has helped you understand what PND can do to some people. One day your fine, you have a baby then the next minute things are so different.
Matilda
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