Is my partner suffering from pnd or is it more?

[aussie dad]

I have just come across these forums in desperation to find some help with my problem,

My fiance' and I had a beautiful baby girl about four months ago, and have been together for two years.

By no means am I claiming that I am the perfect man, and that we did not have certain issues just before our daughter was born. She had (rightfully) accused me of being a little lazy in regards to getting work, even though I was in the position of starting a new business and was actively sourcing investors. The fact that I was at home almost every day, and making a few calls a day to source the funds to start the business left me a lot of time to relax, and I know (now) that this was a contributing factor to our main problems. Added to this I was not helping around the house as I could have, and generally (in her words) being a lazy pig.

I had made the mistake of promising that I would have work by the time that the baby was born, safe in the knowledge that I had a $50,000 check ready to go,on its way in, which would have bought me time to stay home with the baby, while alaying her fears of not having enough money to get by.

That deal collapsed about a week before the baby was born, with no prior notice or reasons, and due to my reliance on this deal (about 6 weeks before she was due) I was not actually looking for work.

However, when the baby was born, We were closer than we had ever been and there was nothing that could get in our way, I still was not looking for more investors or work, because the excitement of a brand new baby was still foremost in my mind. A little bit later my fiance was complaining that she was not getting enough sleep due to the fact that our daughter was (breast) feeding every hour or so for about 15 minutes at a time. Due to the fact that she was breastfeeding, there was not a lot I could do. We wern't using a breast pump or bottles at the time, and we were mainly either visiting friends for dinner, or (due to our schedule) eating a lot of junk food. Suffice it to say that we were not eating sufficiently enough for the baby, and the housework was kept to a minimum, seeing as we weren't really home that often to make a huge mess. Soon my fiance's breast milk supply started to dwindle, and soon found that we would have to switch to formula, and take to bottle feeding, She was still feeding fairly regularly and then settled into a routine shortly after, at which time I was encouraged to take over some of the feeds, and ease some of the strain off my partner. Not really knowing what I was doing, (first time father) and the fact that the baby would not initially feed with me, I slowly stopped feeding her out of convenience. Because my partner was so tired constantly (always feeding the baby, with little sleep) I found myself soon afterwards sleeping in as long as she was, and we both decided to get out of the house, and meet with one of her old friends who had just had a baby of her own.

We were getting out of our old groove, and getting out a little more, and the girls had decided to have a girls night out, which was a little out of character for my fiance' but I figured she deserved it, and for a couple of weeks we saw them almost every day, and developed a close friendship due to the fact that we were (both families) in the same boat with a new baby so close together. Things were looking up, even with the underlying issues of work and more help around the house (which we were'nt at often anymore).
I had recieved great news, a $10,000 settlement was on its way, and would have helped with the business a little by paying some peoples wages (as well as my own) for a couple of months. The perpetuity of the business would work itself out, and we had a little extra cash to play with.

Our friend had recieved a call from her fiance's aunt, who was getting married, and had booked a hens night/ bachelorette party on a stripper boat, and needed an extra person to come along to fill the group discount. She asked my fiance to come along, and trusting her I agreed, thinking nothing of it.

That night she cheated on me with one of the strippers on the boat, no intercourse, but she had kissed him repeatedly, and our friend had also cheated on her fiancee who by now was a closer friend of mine. They arrived home at 5am, and we did not know what they had really gotten upto seeing as the storys they told us were plausible, and there was no history for either of us not to trust our partners.

The next week she had told me that she didn't know if she loved me anymore, which devastated me, and I asked for family to mediate in order to work out what was going on and how to fix it. We came to an arrangement, If I took more of an active role in taking care of our daughter, and got a regular job, with regular income, and helped a little more around the house, that we would work it out.

cont'd

[aussie dad]

The next day I arranged 5 interviews, and was shortlisted for a second interveiw for the thursday, I made a few more calls, (mainly to avoid wasting time) and scored the job with a company that would pay a retainer while I waited for the commissions from my earnings. I was to start the monday, and I immediately came to an arrangement where I would take over the 4am feeds, on every other day, in an attempt at fairness on my part, and have done so for a month and a bit now. I went into work on the monday, only to be told in the first hour and a half that I had failed the training course ( unbelievably stupid reasons ) and to not bother coming back the next day.

I went home and started working on finding another job, walking up and down the main street of where I live, asking every local business for work. In about 20 minutes I had another interview, and would need to meet the partner the next day. Interview comes, goes beautifully, and the terms of my employment were the only detail to be worked out, and was told that I had a job and to stop looking ( I would be called in a week). Which I did. A week later, I was told that he would call me to tell me when to start as there were a few other issues to work out.

Later that night my partner said that my efforts were not enough and that it was completely over, to which I responded fairly badly to, however I still believed there was a chance to recover the relationship, and there was something that I could do to fix it. I stopped looking for work, as I had enough money to get by, and made arrangements with an overseas relative to send over some money I have in trust. That was maybe a month ago, and I was still taking care of my daughter as my (now ex) fiance was starting to go out clubbing 3 or more times a week. Seeing as they were my 4am feed nights anyway, It was my responsibility to watch her ( my daughter ) and as a father I felt it was my duty.

Two weeks ago was our friend's hens night which was on the same stripper cruise, that same night I had gone out to a barbeque, and a friend was babysitting while I was out. By the time I got home the babysitting-friend decided to stay the night. My fiance' had orgainised a hotel room in the city so they would not have to worry about finding their way home in the early hours of the morning.

I was told of some of the stories of what had happened that night, which involved some of the other girls and some pretty shocking stories. Also being told that nothing had happened with my fiance'.

I had the feeling that I was not being told the complete truth, and asked the babysitter what the girls were talking about when I was not around, and she had told me what my fiance had told her.

She had been sleeping with a stripper for the past month, and that she had taken my daughter to meet him, and that when I was being asked to watch my daughter while they went out for a couple of drinks, that she was sleeping with him. On the hens night she went to see him on the other boat, and dissapeared for two hours. Only to make it back to the club where the girls where, to have even more drinks, and proceed to kiss three women. She then took the bartender from the stripper cruise back to the hotel, and slept with him on the hen's bed.

I was incredibly furious, we were/are still living together and I was making attempts at patching things up, thinking that all was well to be told this by the babysitter/friend, and I confronted my fiance about it. She admitted it all and during the argument called me by the stripper's name. I decided then to go to a friend's house as it was all too much for me, and started plotting my revenge on him.

I calmed down, and realised that these actions were completely the opposite of the person that I have been with for the last two years, and my hope was that It was somehow connected to stories that I had seen about mothers rejecting their husbands and having affairs, only to discover that it was caused by Post natal depression, and was successfully treated, and the relationships were rebuilt. Although she denies that she has it, (PND) It is obvious to myself, her family, and most of her friends that this is not the real her, and that something is wrong.

I went to my doctor today to ask for some help in dealing with the issues I am facing and was prescribed anti-depressants myself, because every time I looked at my beautiful daughter I could only think of my fiance cheating on me, and sleeping with someone else, coupled with the fact that every now and again (as we still live in the same house, different rooms) I see a hint of the old her, that I fell in love with. His reaction to the situation was to try and get her in to see someone immediately as untreated this could potentially get a whole lot worse.

When my fiance found out about my doctor's visit this afternoon, she said again, " I know in myself that I do not have post natal depression, do drop the subject " to which we had an argument, and we called a doctor to come for a house call.

When he arrived, he seemed to only be concerned with of she was threatening the baby, or herself, and upon hearing that she was not displaying anything towards the baby said " If it was PND it would be much more serious than this." after which he left.

Like I said, I am not perfect by any means and I have made a mistake of kissing someone else, while I was dealing with the pregnancy in the first place, and the lack of the bond that I had with the growing baby, and the obviously second place I had taken with the baby. These issues were worked out over time, and It is the only thing in my life that I actually regret. I told her about it, after she had told me all of this, and she told me that she didn't know if she could trust me ever again. To which I replied, " There is no justification for what I did, and no amount of words can convince you to trust me, however I want you to know that I would never do that to my daughter again, and If we get help I want us to start again, possibly being a normal family in time."

I am desperate for help on this situation, My doctor says that it is definitely PND, but the doctor that came to our house said that it wasn't. Now I am stuck not knowing what to do.

[yorkslass]

Dear aussie dad

My heart goes out to you, and well done for opening up on here.

All I can say is how I felt towards my partner, we have been together 13 yrs I have had PND for 2 and half years but reacently I have had it worse than ever, I too thought that I hated my partner and did silly things by meeting a couple of men and having sex with them I know it is wrong, but now I know the reason why it was because I was unhappy maybe to do with my PND. I think I do love my partner. By the way this is the first time I have confessed this even to the others on the forum. We also have big money problems, maybe she dose have PND I do not know I am no expert just someone who is suffering from this horride thing, you will have to be paitent I know it is hard for you maybe a friend or relitive may be able to talk to her.

I wish I could help more
Take care
Melx

[deborah]

Dear Aussie Dad,
I am so sad at what is happening to you, but maybe this may help.

PNI or Postnatal Illness
(its an illness as depression is only a part of the whole issue)
is an unusual set of symptoms which show themselves in very strange ways. It is possible she may have it but it is also possible that she is also finding it hard to adjust to motherhood.

The other person i can think of who had symptoms ike your fiance's are Zoe Ball- fat boy slims wife?
Do you know of this person/ He is a famous DJ who works all over the world i know he's known in australia.

His wife did the same thing, felt on her own as he was working everywhere and she was alone for alot of the time.
Alone in herself as well as him not being there physically being alone is more than geography-do you know what i mean?
She went off clubbing etc and had an affair with another DJ it was very public and the newspapers were full of it. They were very happily married prior to this and were known as a close couple.
She sent off for quite a while and didn't like motherhood very much. She had a mother herself who abandoned her as a child and i'm thinking is there something that has happened in her background which is making her behave like this?

Motherhood is not something ewhich comes naturally to all women despite what our biology gives us.
Its something in our mind, our psychology which passes though us and mingles with who we are, where we are from what we know of ourselves and our history.
It makes us look at how we were brought up and who we are as people. It makes us look at ourselves and our future as people as parents. Sometimes we don't like what we see.
I think of PNI as an 'emotional' illness as it concerns us as women and men becoming us as parents, and putting the two issues together so we become a parents when we should be and ourselves when its appropriate ie on a night out. Perhaps she is missing a part of herself?
She is finding it hard to adjust to being a mum? Having sex with strangers is thrilling and different. Its a distraction, you don't have to think and its a way of escaping from the reality of life- same with alcohol.
At some point she will become fed-up of doing this because she cannot escape forever. Her baby will grow up, she will miss out on the baby's early months and then she will be consummed with guilt at this.

What i would say is this:
-It is likely she is having a hard time becoming a mother, psychologically speaking that is.

-She may be escaping the mundane and tiring aspects of caring for a baby by partying all night.

-She will get to a point where she will decide this current lifestyle of alcohol fuelled sex is not for her.
-She will want her baby back.
Some women go through a feeling of insecurity when they have a partner who is out of work but in this case i would say she has possibly used it as an excuse for her feeling motherhood is not for her just now.

If you still love her and are willing to give things another go then help her though this adjustment.
She will need time to just 'be' with the baby without any worries such as housework and money which you have taken care of with your trust fund.

Let her just get to know the baby slowly and understand how she has not been forgotten. She is still the person she once was, its just that she needs time and space to come to terms with who she is and how she became a mother.

The same advice is for you. To a certain extent, men go through this as well. Some men once a baby is born go off chatting up women, drinking and sleeping around. Its a way of escaping but a pretty hollow one. Which is why she will come back and probably feel terrible.

Try not to judge her if she does.It may be its just sex and is the empty and shallow experience i've mentioned here. Anyone who is serious about someone else ie going off with them doesn't behave as she is doing now.

That said it doesn't follow she is ill either but she may be feeling confused about herself, herlife and being a mother. Does she have a good relationship with her own mother and father?
Can she confide in her mum? Can she go and stay with them for a short while with the baby so she has time to think?

I hope this helps a bit, its difficult to say what is illness and what is normal adjustment to something which should be 'normal' in our behaviour as humans. But life is complex and a life changing event such as becoming a parent does shake people up even women.
Give her the benefit of the doubt. Let us know how you get on, and well done for being such a caring father and loyal man. Your 'kissing someone'' may have been your way of coping with becoming a parent too. Mistakes happen, life is too short to bear grudges, help her and give your relationship a new start.You owe it to your new baby to give her parents who care about ewach other and about her.
Take care of yourself love
Deborah xx

[aussie dad]

Thank you for your support, I was a little worried that I was crazy for thinking that PND had something to do with it, and I was just grasping at straws to find a reason.

As for her mother, she did the same thing to her partner when the girls were born, (she had twins about 2.5 months premature, my partner being the younger of the two) they both grew up around this kind of thing and eventually the older twin, moved in with her father, while my fiance stayed with her mother. Originally her mother was great with me, and we got along really well, then all of a sudden, I was not good enough. Her stepmother, and her father, I respect as if they were my own parents, however they did not have the chance to know her as much as I did, and I feel that while we were together, she became closer to her father as well.

So in answer to the suggestion, I dont think it would be productive for her to see her mum, as it would probably end up with her mum saying that her actions are completely normal, and possibly even encourage them.

We are going to see her father today, (easter sunday here) and hopefully seeing her family will help. But I dont know.

At the end of it all, If it is something related to an illness, I would do anything in the world to have the old her back, but if it proves to have nothing to do with that then I know that this would not be a good relationship to be in.

She is going out tonight as well, and all I can do is hope that nothing else happens.

edit:
She has also been talking about moving out, and she is stying here (with her sister) as long as it takes for her to save up the bond on another place ( she goes back to work in a week or so ) and is talking about taking our daughter with her, which kind of worries me. I dont know what could happen if left unchecked, and I wont exactly be able to monitor the situation if we are not living together.

[Veritee]

Hi
I always find these sorts of posts so difficult to reply to - those posts asking if someone has PNI - the woman or her friends or partners.

Only the person themselves can really decide this, with the help I guess of any advice or information or support she seeks.

While I do feel for you to, it must have been a terrible shock and you do sound like you love your partner and have done your best to help with the baby.

My husband would really identify with feeling there was nothing much he could do when I was breastfeeding.
It is a very difficult time for all - a new baby and the father can be neglected in this. The strain of being the only one who is or can work is considerable – Barry found this hard.

But as to whether your partner has PNI - she does not think she has.

Whatever anyone else thinks their can be no treatment anyway unless she wants it and also her behaviour need not be this at all - it could be PNI as Deborah and others have said but it could be for many other reasons not connected with PNI or any illness at all and she has done nothing that is not her right to do if she want to do it.

Having a baby can lead to someone taking stock and changing their view on what they want out of life. I know how she is seems so out of character but no one can say what is really going on for her.

She is not trying to deceive you now as she is being open now and has said she wants your relationship to finish - so what can you or anyone else do at least for now?

You need to look after yourself now. You say you are on anti- depressants and from your posts I can see you are distressed. You need to get support for yourself for now as I do not feel you can do much more until you are stronger.

I understand how distressed you would be - this is a terrible situation for you and all involved.
Have you tried the men’s forums listed under the men’s section?
I am not in anyway suggesting you do not post here, please use this forum if you think it will help but another man who has experienced similar may also have something to offer.

All the best
Veritee