She wants to live a life without me.

[Neil]

I,ve been with my Fiance for 8 1/2 years we have a son who is almost three. 3 months ago she asked me to move out she needed time to think. I tried to find out the problem she said things weren't right she needed space to find how she felt about me. I did leave her and my son for 4 days, the worst time of my life. I couldn't stay away any longer i had to go back and try to sort out what was wrong. But after a week she said things were better but not right she needed her space so off i went again this time for a week, i wasn't any easier. Friends were saying she must be having an affair but i know her better but that talk twists your insides.

When i went back i told her i had had enough and it was over. She said that was fine she was going to tell me the same next week antway.

We are presently separating i am buying her out of the house so she will have enough cash to live on for the next 3 years at uni.

Here's the history:
I 36 she's 27. We never argue just discuss. She feels lonely and unsupported even though i love her so much and have tried to commit my spare time to our relationship. I do agree with her that i find it difficult to listen to her (or maybe understand what she is trying to tell me) I do work a lot of hours but it is only to cover the bills but she is impulsive and money goes so easily.

We move down to Cardiff from Gloucester last Sept so she could study dietetics i still commute which adds a lots of time to my day so she now feels like i am trying to avoid her. In the last 4 months she has changed lots she has lost over 20 pounds in weight and restyled her hair and is wearing short skirts again, just what i've been trying to get her to do for last few years, but also wants to live the student life without me. i have supported her through diets before as since the baby her weight was a problem to her but she still looked great.

About a year ago she did go to see a therapists to talk over some problem but refused to go over it with me and said it was bringing back too many memories that she did not want to remember. i know what these are as we have discussed them before but it really hurts to talk and they are still eating her up.

Now i feel she is trying to get away from it all, make new friends who don't know her past and live a new life just her and the toddler.

I feel i want to be there for her and i tell her that, what ever she does, she say's she loves me but only wants me as a friend.

A few friends have said it sounds like she is going through post natal depression, what can i do? I want to help her so much but feel totally helpless. She just tells me she has put her strong head on and that is the way she is going to be but i know when on her own she is different, surely this will keep causing her problems in the future if all she does is run away.

Any advise will be much appreciated.

[susie]

Hi Neil,

Sorry you and your fiance are having such a hard time at the moment. From what you have said it is very difficult to say whether she has pni or not, can you give us an idea what other symptoms she has that would make you think she has pni? Also how long has she been feeling like this? Maybe then someone will be able to offer you some advice.

Susie

[deborah]

Dear neil,
Why have her friends mentioned PNI?
It sounds like (without hearing her past or problems) as if she has started a course at Uni and it has changed her life- which happens alot when people are young.

Be careful not to clutch at straws because even if it was PNI- that doesn't mean she would change her mind about how she feels about you, or that the PNI would resolve and 'all would be well again'' if you see what I mean.

Men understandably feel very hurt when a woman suddenly tells him she wants to break up, because sometimes she may have 'worked through' her feelings while she was with you, which is why she seems so together and knows her mind, 'strong head on ' and all that.
Men carry on with life and think all is well then- wham; you are told ''i'm not happy'' and you wonder why she has said this to you. She has probably been thinking about leaving for a while hence the weight loss and other changes to her appearance.

Don't think for a moment i'm being harsh here, I do feel for you because i think men get it harder than us women because we have other women or male friends to speak to about our issues/problems whereas men don't. Well not as easily anyway.

8 1/2 years plus a little boy is a long time to be together so what has she said about the reasons for breaking up??
Has she made arrangements for her little boy to see his Dad eg you??
The issues you have discussed before are they relevant to this do you think?
(I'm not being nosey it is just to say is it relevant to what has happened or is happening?)
Post further if necessary on here and seek advice as the girls here are great.

PNI has many features but it can't be blamed for everything- even 3 years on. Yes there are some women who feel it may be there after 3 years or so but there wouls be other relevant details to her story/life history, the baby's birth and early parenting which would show something untoward or something to suggest PNI may be a factor in your relationship break up.
Best wishes and love
Deborah xx

[Veritee]

Hi Neil

I agree with everything Deborah has said.

Apart from friends suggesting she may have PNI, what has made you think she may have this?
Why did your friends suggest this as you have said little to me that would lead me to that opinion?

I do not think we have enough information to go on.

However like Deborah I would warn about clutching at straws and interpreting your partner wanting to finish the relationship as some sort of mental health condition in her.

It may not make any sense to you in your position but it may be that it is exactly as she has said - that she no longer wants a relationship with you! I know this would be very hard for you to accept especially as you have obviously tried very hard in terms of compromising about where you are living and have tried to support her in all she does including her studies.

However I do not meant to be unsupportive but you do have to consider this honestly because if this is the case she simply no longer wants a relationship with you it would be disrespectful and patronizing ( a put down really) if you were to explain her wanting to end your relationship, down to her being mentally ill in some way.

If you interpreted her wanting to end your relationship as her suffering from PNI when in fact she does not it would not only jeopardize your future relationship which you have to have if you are to continue to have access to your son, it devalues the worth of your past relationship.

I feel as she is so positive in saying she wants to end your relationship you have no option for now but to accept this!

You can still stay in the background as a supportive dad to your son and be prepared to support her if she asks you to and if in the future she feels she has PNI then you will still be around and in a position to help.

I am sorry about how you are feeling it is a terrible thing when a long tern relationship breaks up for whatever reason - especially I feel if you have children together.

You must now be feeling very sad?

All the best

Veritee

[Neil B]

Thanks for the replys.

It is helpful to read what you say. I feel she does no longer have pnd as she has worked through it, but i wish she had tried to make it clearer to me what the problem might have been.

She did say the long hours working were causing problems but when money is tight you work whatever you can. If i had known we would split because of this i would have done something earlier. I know there were many other areas which were a problem too and long term i guess this would have happened anyway.

My only regret is i was not able to understand what she was trying to tell me over the last two years as the problems developed. I have learnt a lot over this time and i only hope she will feel able to talk to me in the future and i will be able to listen and understand as i feel i have learnt a lot about being supportive and i would like to share that with her.

I will get back in about a week and explain more. I am away on a training course for a new job so will speak later.

Thanks, Neil.

[stuart]

Hi Veritee
I also posted something on this site which after reading this plea by yet another male regarding his situation and his child. Looking at both your comments you have posted I feel that although you are straight to the point and in some comments very cutting, that fathers have lost their children through their partners, wife etc they have no say they have to fight for their rights and how does everyone know that the actions of the female are the right ones for the child both financially, long term and who is the most stable for that child? Why is it that the mother has all the rights? when I am certainly more capable of taking care of my children in all aspects!!! I feel that there is a lot of males out there in very similar situations that we do not even know about. Totally frustrated because they want to help and are not getting anywhere! just people telling them to wait, are you certain? how do you know? etc etc When the facts are there is no logical reason or explanation from the females of why their behaviour is totally irrational, irresponsible and backed by a legal system that is out of date. I am going to do a lot more research into everything because I do not think in my opinion that is rcorrect and does not take into account the future of all our children!!!!!!! Stuart

Veritee said:

Hi Neil

I agree with everything Deborah has said.

Apart from friends suggesting she may have PNI, what has made you think she may have this?
Why did your friends suggest this as you have said little to me that would lead me to that opinion?

I do not think we have enough information to go on.

However like Deborah I would warn about clutching at straws and interpreting your partner wanting to finish the relationship as some sort of mental health condition in her.

It may not make any sense to you in your position but it may be that it is exactly as she has said - that she no longer wants a relationship with you! I know this would be very hard for you to accept especially as you have obviously tried very hard in terms of compromising about where you are living and have tried to support her in all she does including her studies.

However I do not meant to be unsupportive but you do have to consider this honestly because if this is the case she simply no longer wants a relationship with you it would be disrespectful and patronizing ( a put down really) if you were to explain her wanting to end your relationship, down to her being mentally ill in some way.

If you interpreted her wanting to end your relationship as her suffering from PNI when in fact she does not it would not only jeopardize your future relationship which you have to have if you are to continue to have access to your son, it devalues the worth of your past relationship.

I feel as she is so positive in saying she wants to end your relationship you have no option for now but to accept this!

You can still stay in the background as a supportive dad to your son and be prepared to support her if she asks you to and if in the future she feels she has PNI then you will still be around and in a position to help.

I am sorry about how you are feeling it is a terrible thing when a long tern relationship breaks up for whatever reason - especially I feel if you have children together.

You must now be feeling very sad?

All the best

Veritee

[Veritee]

I know Stuart, I really do.

I am not a man in your position and yes I am straight to the point. I am very sorry I upset you.

But I had to ask - it would be irresponsible of me not to and I am sorry that so many have asked before.

I do not assume that you were wrong in your certainly that your partner has PNI, or in some way ill, but like others before me urge you to be sure.

but as you pointed out as it is a fact that men have fewer rights than women – Its not that I want men to have fewer rights, it is just a fact I have learnt the hard way and men that are married to the mothers of their children find there is little they can do in these circumstances.

Not every one realises the position when it comes to your children or realise how few legal rights you have especially when not married.

Do not think, though I am not sympathetic to you. I spoke absolutely from hard experience.

I do not usually tell the whole story of this experience as I do not want to bring my stuff into it but as you have seen what I said as coming from another perspective from where it actually did it might be useful to mention my families experience to you.

There are indeed many men out their with experiences like yours

I have a younger brother 49 who I love dearly we are very close and have been active in supporting him and really living through this experience with him and I am sure he will not mind me saying here.

As older sister with one parent dead and the other blind my we now all support each other – and we lived a nightmare rather like the one you described for quite a few years’

My brother has 4 children - I love his children like my own - but 5 year ago after behaving very differently maybe you could say eraticaly and strangly his wife left taking one of them with her – My brother like you was also certain that his wife may not be able to look after the child she took – It did not hawever occur to him she was ill, at least not at first, but it was in fact me who always thought she might be, but she has never thought she was and never sought help or treatment.

– My brother though did certainly fear, from his experience of her behavour before she left, that she would not be able to look after the child she took with her, well enough and that like you he was more able to bring up his child.

He was actually married to her, but even being married to the mother of his children, like you, once she left there was very little he could do for some years except look after himself –and in his case look after his other children

(The youngest he was left to care for was only a baby – a girl in a pram- when his wife left, the others left with him were boys of 9 and 6)

- And make sure that he was in a position to be able to support his child as much as the mother would allow him.

In the end our story ended in semi tragedy - so I do know your fears - the child who went with her mother was admitted into hospital 4 years later,

( much happened in between with my visiting, and lots of the family trying to help and on her side of the family as well, and trying to improve things and my brother going through his own personal hell knowing his little girl perhaps was not safe)

My brothers child was was admitted to hospital with severe neglect - I could go on and explain how bad this was but I will not.

It was what we had all feared.

I am NOT suggesting this could happen to you – and it is for this reason I do not usually go into what happened, as this degree of actual neglect is rare – but I wanted you to understand that I was not unsympathetic to your position or any other man in a similar position

– but that having been through it I know the realities of what you can or can not do.

His wife still does not accept she is or has ever been ill in any way ( she is certainly not evil and actually quite soft and kind, but she did, as my brother feared, neglect her child to a high degree)

Our story does have a happy ending (although we so wish she had not had to go through this) as this child has now been placed back with her father (my brother) by Social Services to live with him and her three other siblings.

My brother has an incredibly hard job to do, being a single parent of 4 children, one who's health is not good having suffered neglect, but it is a job he does well.

So I did answer your post from experience, I was harsh but I suppose I wanted to cut to the chase and point out the realities that my brother and I had to learn the hard way.

So that you can focus on what it is possible for you to do and not get diverted by what is not possible.

I know absolutely the problems of the rights or lack of rights of fathers and that a well and loving dad can do a wonderful job looking after a child.

My brother looks after 4.

However I know that I may not be the right person to support you - a bit too blunt perhaps, and you may like to talk to a man - but I would like to off the support forum anyway as I am not the only one here.

Wendy has replied and she says she has asked her husband also

You could also try e mailing to Neil whose thread this is as he is a member so while he may not go on the site to look to see if anyone has replied;

But he has left an email address so you could email him too. It is [e-mail]

I could also ask my brother to contact you?
He is very busy with the kids so he does not get involved in the forum but he maybe could e mail you.

All the best

Veritee