Survivors of Mums Suicide through PNI

[RW]

I wonder if you can help. Firstly I am a man , I hope it is appropriate to post here but I can,'t seem to find help that fits anywhere else.

40 years ago my Mum of 32 took her own life and PNI was seen as the cause, I was 2 months old. I was brought up by loving Grandparents. My Dad re-married and took me back from 7. I was told my mum had died but didn't get the full story until I was in my late teens.

i have to say that I have been totally mixed up about this all my life. The loss just didn't seem to register and there was also guilt, was this down to me? this may seem silly as I wazs only a baby but it's there. I have had a huge dark hole in my soul since this began.

I got physically ill and went for counselling. Suddenly the loss of my mum was writ large. At christmas my Dad brought photos and things.Finally , when I looked I realised how much I loved her, even though I never , really consciouly knew her. Since then I have her back in my heart
forever. I have traced and visited her last resting place and want to trace relatives on her families side; I also visited the house where she took her life to put flowers. Finally I am grieving her loss after all this time.

I am also angry, not at her in any way but at society in Britain in the 1960's where this awful illness was disregarded it seems. I wish I could time travel at times to stop all this hurt but I am trying to heal it the best that I can. I now donate regularly to a support group. Despite this being more painful than anything I have ever experienced it is a pain brought on by feeling loss. My most painful thoughts are actually around what she must have been thinking and feeling when this happenned.

When it did I was in the next room, I don't know how this afects someone. All I know is that I miss her and want to be with her despite not consciouly remembering her and despite me being 40 years old. I just want to be a good son now and look after her memory. She was a fascinating and extremely adventurous woman and I just feel so cheated that this horrible illness took her from me.

If anyone, anywhere knows of any support for those like me who were babies who went through their mum's suicide from post natal illness then can you please tell me. Research into this may help too. I am more than happy to feel the pain and it comes at me in massive waves but I wouldn't mind some help from someone who knows to navigate it. One day I want to help others like me but I have my stuff to do first.

Please keep safe and well all of you.

RW

[Veritee]

Dear RW

First of all I need to say I am just so sorry that you had this happen to you. I can not imagine anything worse than to know you were a baby in the room next door when your mother killed herself. I really can not.

Do you have children of your own now? If you have has bringing them up helped to resolve your demon’s?

I have assumptions you must have thoughts and feeling that you somehow where not ‘good/important’ enough to keep her alive - to live for, and I am certain that you now have issues of self esteem as what could be worse as to feel your mother decided to kill herself because of how she felt after having you.

No wonder you are angry. You have so many reasons to be angry and it will be something so hard to get closure on/to resolve this.

The support for women with Pni in the 50s and 60s did leave much to be desired . I am now 53 but my mother had it with me in the 50s and her last child in the 60s so I do know how little help their was then

As someone who has suffered emotional/mental pain - my heart goes out to you.

I thought I had issues that were hard to resolve in my life - but what you are going through is much worse.

All I can say that might help you is that the motivation for most women with PNI who feel suicidal - is not at all that they love their children too little - but that they love them too much. Please believe this as it is true.

In their distress they feel that their child or children will be better off without them.

They are just so wrong as you will know so well

Your mother did not kill herself because she did not love you - I am certain she did it because she loved you so much and in the depths of her horrible illness, .PNI. She thought you would be better off without her – I have felt this too;

I doubt is many of us with PNI have not felt this.

We are very wrong – out children would not at all in any circumstances be better off without us – but you really feel or believe this at the time


And most realise this before they take this ultimate step - but your mother was one of a minority who went through with it, and I am just so sorry that this happened for you.

But I had to move your post however because of two reasons.

One that the most upsetting symptom for women with Post Natal Illness is often the guilt they feel about the effect their illness is having on their family, especially their children.

This forum is currently supporting many women with very small babies who depend on their mothers for everything on their mothers well being, and my main concern has to be with these women.

I was concerned that your post may add to their feelings of guilt, so I moved it.

Secondly although it does happen for a small minority and many women feel suicidal with PNI,

I have to say that it is unusual for women with PNI with small children to actually go through with taking their own life this and certainly not the norm as most women with PNI do get through without harming themselves or their children.

I know this will hurt you if I say this - but I feel their may have been other factors for your mum for her to actually go through with suicide?

Perhaps she had issues before she had children or maybe she lacked support.

Having said this- suicide by women with PNI does occasionally happen and if you read my main site you will see that one of the main things that motivated me to start this forum was that the wife of my husbands best friend committed suicide when her child was two.

So I know it does happen.

The problem is I know I am going to disappoint you as the answer to your question is there is not to my knowledge any support for those 'who were babies who went through their mum's suicide from post natal illness' or indeed for those whose mothers ( as most of us do) survived this awful illness .

Also there is still not enough support for women currently going through PNI even now and it does not seem to be considered generally to be the serious illness and as common it really is which is why I run this site.

So I can not refer you to any where that may help you
.
I only wish I could, but if you want to post on here as long as what you say does not upset women currently struggling with PNI ( as your mum must have) I will try to help. But women currently with PNI has to be this forums main priority to help to avoid tragedies like you went through and to ensure children do not suffer what you did,

I am currently considering starting a men’s forum so perhaps this might be helpful to you as I envisage it for men affected in any way by PNI - even as a child. What do you think?


Veritee

[RW]

Dear Veritee

Thank you so much for replying. Having this pain acknowledged is enough. It is huge, at the moment it comes out physically, its latest manifestation is a constant choking sensation. After 40 years I have finally wept because of what happenned.

You are correct to prioritise women who suffer this illness. I maybe should have thought more before posting it but I tried to word it carefully.

The bit about loving too much has much ressonance. I was confused over all of this in the past but maybe she just didn't feel she could give me what she felt I needed. This is so sad because my Dad has finally started to talk about these things and he says I was a quiet baby and that the early weeks were fine.There may have been other issues and there were financial pressures as well.


The worst thing is not knowing exactly what was happening. I have 4 photographs, a passport and some college books, that is all. But there are also relatives who I am tracing who could tell me more.

For most of my life I have simply buried all of this
and when I was younger some feelings got all twisted up but no longer.You think you are clever in boxing all this away but you are not. One day It gets up and comes looking for you and you feel about as clever as a year one student but my message is not a negative one.

This illness and any manifestation of it is not a womans fault.As I said earlier , what upsets me most is what my mum must have been going through and thinking.Perhaps if there had been more general understanding and help things could have been different. Thats why I now make a financial contribution to one agency and why I have promised mum I will do all I can to raise awareness of this issue. It has also changed me for the better, when I hear those who take their mums for granted I put them straight a lot more. I dont yet have children, maybe I was worried what would happen but note the "yet". It has "levelled" me a little and I am a lot more aware and responsive to peoples feelings

As for the actual suicide issue not being common , this gives hope.In terms of there not being an agency or help service for those in my shoes, well there are clearly not a massive ammount of us and if there is no "road map" then maybe in future I can help draw one.

Starting a forum to cover issues for either men or children whose parents went through this would be good. Also remember this, whatever happenned
I love my mum even though she isn't physically here I have her in spirit inside me.As for self esteem I have veered from being very forthright and outgoing with a zany sense of humour to often feeling very lost. I think this can heal I hope I can do my bit in some small way to stop women having to suffer this way. Thanks for your time and keep this excellent work up!

Yours

RW

[Veritee]

Dear RW

I just spent ages writing a reply and then my PC crashed and I had not saved it – I should know by now?

But I am so glad that you understand why I have to put the women on the site with PNI first and that you were not offended. It is good of you to understand as your own hurt and grief must be very large and I admire you for not blaming your mother as this would probably be most people’s first reaction and perhaps blame is something perhaps we need to do. But perhaps you have gone through this blame?

This does not mean that I do not wish there was more support for other affected by PNI such as partners, children, relatives and friends. I would like to help start a support forum.

If I could get a group of men and relative together to monitor such a support forum I could get it up and running in a few days – but it would need ongoing commitment to monitor and moderate such a site. I spend hours of my time doing this on this one so I could not do it on two!

Your description of the physical chocking feeling is not unlike what some women with PNI describe. Perhaps physical symptoms are about when you suppress strong feelings?

Did this feeling go after you cried? What other physical feelings did you get?

I am a child of a mother with PNI but while I was aware of it and the way she was sometimes detached in her care did sometimes cause me to wonder if she loved me.

This makes sense now as with PNI you often continue the care of your child but are not engaged as you are feeling so awful. I was much more affected by my dads drinking than my mums PNI.
She always came over as a competent caring mother who met most of my needs.

My brother was more affected and research does suggest that boys are more affected than girls but research also says that girls of mothers with PNII are more passive non- assertive and boys more aggressive and ‘out there’. But in our case it is me who is the assertive aggressive one and my brother very passive and shy!

But do you want me to look this research on the effects on children out?

However it would seem to me that you are more affected by the fact of her suicide than that she had PNI as I guess you were too young to know?


I wanted to ask if you have had a chance to talk things over with your father about the circumstances around her death, to maybe find out why she was one of the few with PNI who actually went through with suicide.

Could he throw some light on this for you? Does he know if your mum had the more longer term but less acute anxiety, depressive version of the illness with obsessive thoughts, panic attacks, physical symptoms that usually takes some months to come on fully and lasts at least a year.

Does your dad know if she had thoughts she could not deal with or other symptoms?

Or did she have the more acute Puerperal Psychosis?
It sounds to me that she did as 2 months is normally much too soon to feel that bad with ‘anxiety/depressive ’ PNI.

It is often not till 6 months after the birth or more that women feel at their worse or even realise they have it but with Puerperal Psychosis this will often come on within days of the birth and if untreated a woman with it gets rapidly very ill and it is a lot more acute than the PNI we often talk about on this forum.

Having said this often if treated women with Puerperal Psychosis are often well much quicker - in a few months at most and are left with few after effect.
We rarely get women with Puerperal Psychosis on this site or they do not stay long as once they have been treated effectively , they do not often need long term support like this site

If your mother did have untreated Puerperal Psychosis this may explain the suicide. As while women with anxiety PNI can usually muddle through without treatment although it would be preferable, but with Puerperal Psychosis, you really need treatment as the consequences can be tragic.

I do not know how far you want to take this but it seems to me you would like answers. Perhaps I am wrong and maybe you already know all this but has your dad seen her medical notes?

If not and you want to go down this path it might be possible for your father to get hold of them as next of kin even though she is dead.

Her suicide and reasons around this may also be mentioned on your own medical notes as you were a young baby it might have been felt appropriate to put this on your notes and you can write to your doctor to see your notes and then you will be able to go and photocopy anything you want to.

I recently did this for a different issue and it really did help me to resolve it.

But if she had Puerperal Psychosis it would be surprising even in the 60s if this was not picked up as it is quite severe.

Although the treatment in the 50s and 60s was usually quite heavy handed ie ECT and drugs such as lithium and largatile treatment did exist even then especially for Puerperal Psychosis.

I have a story on my main site written by a mum who was hospitalised I think in about 1954 for PNI, so it was recognised sometimes although I realise that even today that those diagnosed and treated with PNI is the tip of the iceberg now so in the days this happened to you mother, many more must have had PNI un noticed.

But would it help you to find out more and put some pieces in the jigsaw – or is it best for you to move forward from here and try to put it behind you.

Only you can know.

Anyway please post again or get back to me if it will help and let me know if there is anything we can do.


All the best

Veritee

[RW]

Dear Veritee

Your comments and insight have been really helpful.

It was the physical symptoms that came first. They came one month after I had nursed my father in law and watched him pass away.It was like his death kicked open a closed door to the others. As well as my mum I lost my Grandmother
(Who was my mum in most ways as she took me on from days old) when I was 12 and my Grandad
who was very much the only male I could really count on, when I was 19.The main symptom was awful brathlessness.I was tested for asthma but have a peak flow reading of 650.My chest X ray was cleart. THis started nearly 2 years ago.I was also , literally doing 2 full time jobs and very active in the local community. I was in effect, running on empty without knowing it. My counselling opened the door to my feelings about my mum. I never really blamed her for what happenned but I often got full of rage and bitterness
at the situation . I tried to act as if it wouldn't have affected me but deep down I knew it had. I just never faced it.

When I really let her into my heart I felt wonderful
but also have had to deal with the fact she has gone
physically.

The choking sensation is horrible, it feels like my throat is closing up every time I exhale, the top of my chest where the throat ends and the breastbone begins is verty tight and painful and I can actually hear my neck muscles tighten up.They get very cramped and feel like a pwerlifters muscles minus the weights.I am now on the list for an ENT appointment to look at my throat but if I do relaxation procedures it can go back to normal.

Although I have cried a lot recently and just after, the tension goes it still feels like I am holding back a huge wave of hurt and fear and sadness. I get scatred it will overwhem me even though I try to let it out. When I used to mention what had happenned to anyone it was in a very clipped unemotional way. Now I want to talk and talk.

There was a lot of pain around mum's suicide and possibly other factors that preceeded it. I am now trying to get the history of this. It isnt easy as I either didn't know or lost touch with relatives of my mum when I was very young. My Dad has found it really hard to talk about it, he is from the era of burying the past to allegedly protect the future, but as you can see, this simply doesn't work.
I have got frustrated with his vagueness at times but now we talk about it and things are changing.


Looking at the symptoms of puerpral psychosis and having experienced it in others I don't really think it fits. My Dad doesn't describe those symptoms and in fact was not acutely aware of how my mum must have been feeling. Maybe mum was scared to talk. As you say the treatment of things then usually involved barbiturates or ECT. She would have known this. Goodness knows what she was feeling inside and this is what upsets me most.

As for me, I have been happily married for 12 years.I had a very turbulent time in my teens and ended up in care. I then went on to work for the homeless in London and the midlands and have been heavily involved in various community campaigns. I am seen as a strong forthright person, often always first in and last to leave in any debate. I do have an aggressive (Never violent)
side. But I am a tale of 2 cities, I got bullied at school and have felt like an outsider most of my life. I am now settled, have great friends and am well respected, maybe this also picked the time I am settled because I feel I have more security in dealing with it all now? Since getting mum back in my heart I want to look at the quieter side. I really just want some peace inside. But I want to be a fierce protector of my mums memory and feel it is my job now to put right all this pain.This may be painful but all the pain has been worth it. My mums memory and sprit is so precious and has been denied by me and to me for so long.How wrong and childish I often feel!

This isn't done with me yet, there are other things to face up to. I will keep an eye on this site and will get back in touch when I feel able to do more. At the moment I am not ready to move on as I haven't
seen all I need to see of these feelings yet. The suggestion about medical notes is useful and I will look into it.

In the past when anyone who knows has mentioned how painful this is I have shrugged it off with false stoicism, no longer.

Thanks again, if you can give me any further insight into these physical symptoms please do and any research on children of those who have suffered post natal illness. When I am finished with me I want to help others so I will be back in touch soon.

Yours with thanks for your time and understanding

RW

[Veritee]

That’s Fine RW

I hope your quest goes well and you will resolve and gain some peace.

I am about to highjack your thread because what you said about you past triggered some stuff for me I have been wrestling with about my running this forum.

I do not expect a response or reply - just using the forum to work it out for myself

Often this is how the forum works, what one person says triggers stuff in another, so on this forum high jacking is encouraged.

However I have put this in a separate thread, as it is really about what your post brought up for me about a dilemma with getting helpers to run this forum an my own motivations for running it.

All the best

Veritee