Does she or............

[jon]

I am very concerned for the well being of my expartner and my two children.

I met my partner 4 1/2 years ago when she was just 18 (i was 28) we began dating and I met here 2 year old daughter. 1 year later she and her daughter moved in with meand her daughter began to call me Daddy, our relationship was brilliant and things were fantastic then a few months later we discussed having another child and in may 2003 we discovered that she was pregnant, we were both over the moon.

She had a difficult prganancy with huge mood swings and she left at least 3 times only to come back the next day tearful and apologetic.

In December there were further complications and several midle of the night rushes to hospital.
Eventaully the docytors decided to induce her 6 weeks early due to a bacterial infection that was putting the baby at risk and our son jack was born weighing in at just 4lb 9 after a spell in the neo natal unit he came home and we had a great christmas.

The next year was fantastic with Jack growing and our daughter who was 4 now starting big school.

I worked from an office next door to our home so we all spent a lot of time together and it was great, however toward the end of the year financial things became tough i wasnt making any money and things were tight. Me and my partner began to argue over money as i was asking her not to spend so much. (we had a very comfortable lifestyle before this) I had to give up my office and began to work from home. She also found a part time job and jack was put in a nursery.

from jan to march 2005 i was working from home but working 8.00 am to 10pm at night and we were not arguing but not talking much either, and i was very worried fiancially.

She began to sleep a lot and to not eat and smoke alot. Her behaviour became switchable, she would be nice one minute then shouting the next not only with me but with the children too.

Things began to get better with me financilly from may onwards and I bought her a new car and was working a bit less and was beginning to worry about her erratic behaviour, although i knew nothing of PND at this stage. I thought it was because she was doing too much with the job and she also was an army cadet instructor on a monday and wednesday night. So i began to suggest that she give one of the things up. bad idea. We then began rowing a lot with her saying I stop her doing things, stop her going out with friends etc etc. I have never ever stopped her from doing anything.

Then on June 27th we had a row and she sadi she was moving out, which she did and over the next few weeks it was on off on off, then we sat down on July 30th and discussed things and she moved back in for a week. at the end of the week she went to an army cadet annual camp. when she returned on the 26th august she said she needed to have a break and was moving out again. She left the children with me and went back to her old flat.

I then discovered that she had begun to see an arny cadet colleague at the camp and he moved into her flat on the 6 th sept 1 week later. Since then she has become increasingly vile towrd me and has had very little interest in the children.

last week she told me she was moving into a new house with her new man (5weeks) after splitting with me and would not give me the address and was taking the children with her.

I have had to get a court order to force her to reveal her new address, which turns out to be 2 streets down from me. She has also told me that i can only have my children every other weekend, which i am deciding whether to fight in court.

In a conversation with her today (when she finally revealed her address) she denied ever living with me, that she hated the 4 years with me and that she wished she had never had a child with me and that i am never going to see her daughter again.

[cheshire]

Dear Jon,

You are clearly going through a very difficult time at the moment, I'm sorry things have been rough for you recently.

It's very hard to say whether your ex partner has PNI or not - or maybe she has already been diagnosed with having it? If not, do you think she would go to the GP - ? Or maybe you can tell her about this forum?

I would like to help you but maybe we need a bit more information or even better, for your ex partner to post here?

Hope you feel supported at least by a reply...
Hopeful

[jon]

I understand it is hard to be able to point to PNI as a cause, but having read many stories i think there maybe a chance it is. What i would like to know ftom anyone is ...if it is PNI and it is left untreated what will happen?

[Veritee]

Dear Jon

I am also sorry that you are going through such a rough time at the moment.

You asked what happens it PNI goes untreated? Well I have to say that what happens in the the majority of cases is that eventually we get better!

The thing is about PNI is that for most women it is self limiting. In other words we all recover eventually, even if it is only because our children grow up and we have more time and space to ourselves - being the major carer of babies and children under 5 is actually for anyone and incredibly stressfully position to be in unless you have extensive help and support or have some one to share the task 50 50, and actually it is not until they are about 10 to 12 that this duty becomes substantially easier!

Unfortunately most of us are not in the position of sharing the care of young children, as our partners have to work long hours and our relatives and friends may be supporting but simply do not have the time to share the day to day grind of caring for our children ...

Couple this with maybe a difficult birth, no real time to get over the birth which is a very demanding thing both physically and mentally, it is not really surprising that so many suffer PNI

- rich women used to have what was called a , lying in period after a birth, personally I think there would be a lot less PNI if modern women could have a period of up to a month when the only thing they had to do is look after their new baby and rest and that there was someone on hand at this time to take over the baby to let the mum have this rest, I think the Victorians did know a thing or two about what a new mother needs that we may have forgotten -

I have to say though that with you working in an office next door you did all the right things in spending as much time as possible helping her with the family and being nearby, I would have loved my partner to have been as near as you when my baby was young, but this is not always enough to prevent PNI in the first place and the birth of your child was very stressful which is a big trigger factor.

The huge hormone disruption of pregnancy and childbirth, without the terrible time you both had wit the birth is very stressful to any woman, as is tiredness, lack of sleep, so it is no wonder that a high proportion of women 1 in 7 get PNI of same kind ranging from very mild to severe enough to require hospitalization.

Take away one of the major tress factors - caring for young children, which leads to lack of sleep, stress, no time for yourself, having no control of your day ( or your life - feeling out of control is a major factor in many depressions and other mental and emotional illnesses and when you have young children no part of your life is withing your control, you have to do everything around your children , even eat and go to the loo)

and many get better quite quickly, as with more time for yourself, more control of your life , plus the fact with time your hormones settle down and you have had time to adjust to the responsibilities of your new or newest child, you can begin to get your life back into something less stressful every day and if this is not the whole answer you have space to seek counseling therapy or even just to do a few activities for yourself.

Also the longer time that goes by since the birth, PNI does for most go away eventually anyhow.

There are some for whom this does not happen and they need treatment and specialized support to recover and it is better for any one with PNI and their families that the woman gets treatment as it lessens the impact on your lives if you treat the symptoms and the illness may last for less time. But mostly PNI just go away, with or without treatment.

Of course it is not ideal to have to wait until our children get older and it would be better if a woman is suffering PNI that support and help was put in place before our children are 5 to 10 to give us the breathing space we need to recover.

I am sorry to have labored the point but I was concerned as to why you might think that your ex- partner might have PNI over a year later? when she did not indicate that she may have had this herself ?

and that you think this that this could be the cause of her leaving you?

Also I am concerned about what you are worried might happen - if you are worried about the safety of your child, then this is understandable as we all worry when we do not have direct control over our children's lives

- but I doubt from what you say that she has PNI that will cause her to harm her children in any way - why would she as she has shown no signs of not loving them and being a good mum. So unless you have any realconcrete grounds for concern , I do not think you should worry.

I also have concerns when estranged partners with no access to their children ask me what you have - that they are looking for angles to try to get custody of the child on mental health reasons!!

I have had this happen before so am now wary and have to say that their is no mileage in this at all - especially with no previous history of PNI - both in getting access or custody of your child/ren or in making things easy between you and your ex - partner, which is necessary if any children are not to suffer as they will if there is strife between you!

Sorry if this is not at all in your mind, but I had to say this , as I have been involved sa few times with estranged partners trying to get some sort of written evidence from me that it is possible that the mother of their children has a mental illness (i.e PNI) !! in the hope that it will help them with their battle for access or custody of their children -

so I have to be careful and I truly believe that unless the person is severely mentally ill and an extreme danger to her children and there is honest concern - this is not the way to go about it as it will only lead to further rifts between you and less chance of seeing your child/ren

And I am not considered an expert anyway!


However while some women do get better within 1 year many do have PNI for 4 years and over especially if they have it with subsequent children - I had it for 5 years with only one child-

However I think that if you are to be a long term sufferer, you will usually know you have it by the time your child is over 1 and your ex is not saying this at all - she is just saying that she does not want to be with you and when she was with you, the situation was not good for her even if you did not realize this.


I think you would be surprised how many men email me - most do this although if you read the mens section you will find that some like you have posted on the forum - asking if PNI/PND could be the reason for a relationship split up and the womans aggressive or at least negative behavior toward them, when most of them thought that on the whole the relationship was basically OK.

One even ask ed if their partners have PNI 16 years after a birth!! Well she may have , but this would not be the cause of why she broke it up!

Well they might have had or have had PNI in some cases - as your ex may have, as some of the way you describe her as being to wards you and her family after the birth could be due to undiagnosed PNI - but there is no way I can judge this only the person concerned, the women who has it, can really decide this.

PNI could have been a factor in the relationship breaking down especially if her partner was not aware anything was wrong and they did not get any extra support or help for them.

But even if she had PNI or even still has it , knowing this is not going to save your relationship now, as your ex has been very clear that she does not want a relationship with you for whatever reason and has indeed lest and started a relationship with someone else.

I think I have to say that you, like many who contact me for the reasons you have, are clutching at straws and whether she had PNI or not or even if she still does this is not going to help the situation if you act on this basis.

I tis more likely if you suggest this to her that it will lead to her being more angry with you as by putting it down to PNI you are basically saying that she was not in her right mind when she decide to leave you and is not fit to make such decisions.

I do not think it would help your situation at all to suggest she has PNI, but if you really thin she may and that you telling her this may lead to here getting treatment, by all means tell her as you know your partner, I don't, but this will not repair your situation.

Relationships break down all the time with or without PNI and many do stay together despite severe PNI of course this causes strain on the relationship but in itself you can never put PNI down as the cause ( it was tough but PNi strengthened my relationship between me and my husband) .

Also to suggest someone has what is in fact a mental illness, for which she will be treated most likely with Anti Ds and it will go down on here health and other records - is not something you would want to happen unless you really do have PNI!!


So all I think you can do now is be non-judgmental and be there if she needs you.

And certainly if you can not be their for here or she does not want you to be,

You can be there for your child/ren.

You live very close so this should not prove impossible. What she said about you not seeing your child again she obviously said in anger and it is clear that she is very angry with you.

I do not know the situation so I can not Judge why but it will not help to get angry back .

If you want to see your daughter be helpful - be a helpful neighbor as you are one and also offer childcare with no conditions attached so you can see your child.

If this does not work, keep calm and dint panic as people say things in anger that they really don't mean.

Give it time and don;t push too hard , if you do not get a reasonable amount of time with your daughter then you will have to sort it out legally.

Despite the bad publicity the legal system has these days when it comes to father seeing their children - this is still the only way.

I do very much feel for fathers who are in dispute with the mothers of their children and therefore do not see their children, especially if they are worried about their well being - my brother is a single parent of 4, but for 5 years his wife had is oldest daughter and he was not allowed to see her, she did not look after her well and now my brother has her legally, but for 5 years this was awful for my brother and all of us but it had to be dealt with properly as you get no where otherwise.

But I would be very careful assuming that she is not going to be a good mum to your child - she has always been and the split up will not alter this whatever it seems from the outside.And you can not make judgments on her mental health from your position.

You have to sort out your own position in this ands access to your child -

Which is best done calmly and legally if negotiations fail.

All the best

Veritee

[susanneb1984]

Hiya Jon,
I feel for you I really do. Your story actually brought a tear to my eye. I am so sorry things haven't worked out for you and your partner. I'm sure something can be done about access to your daughter as well as your biological son. Did you ever sign for parental rights to the lil girl?
I hope that you and your partner can sort through your differences for the sake of the children. I grew up without my father around, and I hated it. Unfortunately, he wasn't in a fit mental state at the time to do anything about it. My eldest daughters father does not see her, and does not want too, which dispite our differences upsets me greatly, so to read a story like yours is difficult.
Please, please do not give up on your children. My ex partner has had to fight for access to his son, and it has taken a long time, but now finally he has regular access to him. Please stick with it, and if your in any doubt about your ex's mental state, plead with her to seek help and advice.

The best advice I can give, is be there for your children. Even if this is just for the weekend, even that will mean more to them than you will ever know, I know it would have done to me.