What is the right support?

[virginia]

A family member had a baby (1st) a couple of weeks ago. She's a IVF baby (parents young and 1st attempt successful). The birth was rushed as baby had stopped moving, so caesarian (spelling?).

Mother diagnosed PND. On meds. Seems pretty cheery, going out, meeting other Mums etc. Grannies have been roped into help and have travelled many miles to stay. Doing the nightfeeds and lots of childcare, cleaning etc.

Mother takes baby to see husband at work as Dad likes to show baby off. I probably sound evil but I feel uneasy about this poor baby being fed by strangers. Why can't the husband do night? Why can't the baby be given to Mother to feed? Baby in room with Granny at night.

I worry about bonding. I also feel that there is a lack of realisation that babies are hard work, they do keep you up/awake at night etc. This is part of the deal. After all the effort to actually be able to have a baby, I would have thought Mum and dad would have done everything they could now she's here.

Grannies are getting on in years, not had childcare experience for 30 years.

I want to understand, and i do understand depression as i have suffered with it all my life and have bi-polar - on Lithium. I know how horrific it can be but Mother doesn't have it really badly. She's alot more cheery already after less that a week on meds so meds not kicked in. In truth, Mum always been unwilling to do alot unless husband there and i wonder if this is part of it, wants to be Mum when husband involved but not wanting baby to come before Mother in husbands life.

Please forgive long post and please don't think i am in any way not understaning depression. Depression has taken my life from me, it is awful, but being swamped/overwhelmed etc by baby and op for babys birth is normal reaction, not necessarily depression. Depression in general is overdiagnosed, feeling overwhelmed is so normal but is it depression?

Should this baby be left to other people to care for so much? Mother has never expressed any feelings of harm to baby or self. Another granny is taking over next week again.

I have bipolar and animals. I don't have children as too much of a risk to pass illness on. My animals are everything though and I would never not feed them or do what's needed. if they need a vet we go etc. i am agrophobic etc but if we need to go out for vets we do. I get up in night and medicate sick animals etc. They are my responsibility. i have NO support, just me. They keep me going though, as they need me. Shouldn't this mother and father be doing more to cope themselves. yes it's hard, it's hard for everyone. Another person i know has a baby of 3 months. Same birth etc, Dad does loads though harder job etc.

I sound awful and rambling so better go. But please be kind, i'm not being cruel just worried for this baby who needs Mum and dad.

[stevensmummy]

Hi,

I hate to sound hard but I agree with what you are saying. There is no way the meds have kicked in already. I am a biologist and know about chemial absorption etc. You say she seems cheerier now. Maybe its just the help. Yet it may as you seem to be indicating a front.

I think personally the mother baby bond is the most important of all. A few wks old is not too old to start the process. It would be easy. Skin to skin contact etc would accelerate the process for mother and baby. It is possible. But she needs to want to do it!

Do you think mum just had a baby to keep dad? Does she really want baby?

Grannies are old to help. I know how hard it was for my mum to help me both times and she is only 50. As for baby sleeping in with granny. I dont agree with that at all. Dad should be doing more in my oppinion. Has there been any paternity leave?

I dont think you sound hard at all. I maybe sound hard too if thats the case but if you ask me, She has the baby blues not pni and she just needs a kick into sorting herself out.

Sorry but I'd be the same as you. Worried.
Can I ask a little more personally. Are they related? Are you in a situation to help sort this out?

I hope you can find help from us and we will behere to support you if we can. I am sorry to hear you have suffered yourself.

Thinking of you
Sarah x

[cheshire]

Hi Virginia,

It's awful if anyone you know is diagnosed with PND - and in my limited experience, the illness seems to present slightly differently for each lady who suffers/ experiences it.

It seems to be a very complex illness - causes, symptoms, length of recovery etc. And whilst having a baby keeping you awake all night does not help anyone who is feeling ill - I doubt this is the cause (personally, I couldn't sleep at all due to a severe breathing problem/ anxiety) so initailly, being woken to be distracted by a baby was quite welcome!

I think any support - if it helps, is probably a good thing. But I can of course understand your concerns - and am sorry to hear you have been unwell yourself.

I suppose it's impossible to say whether it's PND or not - we're just here to support anyone who feels unwell around the birth of their baby. But, just drawing on my own experience, myself and my family were in absolutely no doubt that I was ill - it was very very difficult to hide it and to manage the symptoms.

Don't please think we would ever consider you cruel - of course not, you are obviosuly very concerned.

We're here to listen if that helps at all?


Hopefulxx

[virginia]

Thank you for your comments. Thank you for listening and not judging me. I know it's a terrible, horrendous struggle for you all and even without the depression it's hard being a new Mum. I care for everyone in this case, just i care for the baby too.

It's Mums birthday today. I spoke to hear earlier and she said she was going out later but undecided what to do. i suggested feeding the ducks as such a beautiful day. Mum told me her coat doesn't fit round her properly so doesn't want to go out in the cold.

I called later again. granny was looking after baby. just fed her and granny was hoping to try to get a bit of sleep on settee. Mum and dad gone out for afternoon.

Granny very, very tired,says she too old (late 50's). dad does 11.00pm feed, then Granny does it all. granny said she can't sleep very well as baby was underweight when born, special care for a while - placenta had stopped growing so baby suffered size wise. feeds evry 2/3 hours, takes half an hour a time. Baby tosses and turns at night and Granny hears this so not much sleep.

Perhaps i should add my personal thoughts. When I was born I was left with my Granny as my Mum continued her degree. My Granny and Grandad were my world, as i got older I spent every weekend (Friday to Sunday night) staying at their house. Every holiday. i would cry when i had to go 'home'. I have agorophobia now and my Counsellor believes it stems from having to back to my parents house when I wanted to be at grannys. He said that every time I got 'home' I wondered if it would be there as although i loved being at my grannys, part of me wanted my parents to not want me to be away from them so much. Even now (mid 30's) I have a real problem with thinking people don't love me enough, that no one fights for me, especially my parents.

Hand on heart i loved my granny and grandad more than my parents, i trusted them and they loved me more and unconditionally.

This baby is being fed by anyone passing by it seems, why doesn't Mum want to be with her family on her birthday - she just wants her husband.

I have tried to discuss this with granny. She's not happy but says she's there to help not pass comment. What will baby do when Granny goes home (Wednesday), 100 odd miles away? Another granny is taking over. People say baby doesn't know or care who feeds her, that's NOT true. Why did Mum and dad go to all thr trouble and expense of IVF and not want to look after their baby? This isn't just Mum, it's dad too remember. He certainly doesn't have PNI.

I am very worried about baby.

To you all, i wish you all the hope in the world. What you are going through is terrible, although i have bipolar, I don't know what it's like for each of you. You are all so brave and strong, though you don't feel it. Every second you exist though you are fighting this, be proud for surviving. I only wish i had a magic wand for all of us!! God bless.

[stevensmummy]

Hi,

Thankyou for your kind words you seem to be a woman who understands. So very few do!

I follow what you are saying but its a difficult one. I'm not sure what to say really.

In reality baby isnt going to die if mum doesnt feed it. Ok it may sufer in the long term if she never bonds with the child and grannies always look after it, but its not 'damaged' yet. There is still time for mum to bond with baby. Maybe she just needs some time. Sometimes having a baby suddenly takes all the attention away from mum and on to the new baby. You become a servant and baby is the focus of all attention. In a young person this can be hard.

Maybe granny is right. Who is she to pass comment? A mother will do anything for her child. And in this case the granny is helping her child, the mum/dad, when they need it.

No offense intendend but are you in the place to judge?

I'm sorry I cant be of any more help but I dont know what to say. But we are here to listen if that helps you

Sarah x

[winegirl]

Hi Virginia

I can imagine it must seem quite strange that someone would go to the trouble of IVF and then not want to spend time with their baby. But this is the way PND gets so many women, and it doesnt matter how much you wanted that baby, if you are going to get PND, you are just gonna get it.

My LO was conceived with fertility drugs as I have PCOS and couldnt conceive. She was the most wanted baby in the world, so it was a massive shock to me to develop PND. For me, I never had problems with bonding with my LO, infact I was the exact opposite and couldnt have her out of my sight! But like I said, it affects everyone differently.

Motherhood is such a difficult thing even without PNI, perhaps the LO's Mummy just needs some time to try and get better while family halp take over with baby for a bit?

WG

[Scarlet]

Hello Virginia,

Post Natal depression is a very misunderstood illness, as it can strike anyone from any background at a time when it's meant to be one of the the happiest times in your life. It sounds like this lady has a baby which is very vulnerable and there were complications, which have probably contributed to her illness. Plus IVF is not a pleasant process for anyone, and her birth experience from the sounds of it was less than straight-forward.

I think it's often very difficult to know if a person is suffering badly or not, as they hide it well. I myself spent 3 months in hospital and when my baby was born I went to stay with my SIL, and she cared for my baby 24/7. I was so depressed and ridden with anxiety that I couldn't bear to look at my lovely little boy nor do anything for him. In fact I didn't see him as mine. It took me about 3 months and then gradually I started to take control of my life back and start to care for him (albeit slowly at first).

It''s very early days for this lady by the sounds of it, do you know if she's getting any other support for her PNI? Have you spoken to her yourself. Perhaps she would confide in you? Often mums with PNI do not have anyone they can talk to about the intrusive thoughts and anxieties they are having, and so they wear a mask to the outside world and appear well.

I can understand where you are coming from Virginia, especially if you had bonding difficulties with your own mum and spent your childhood feeling unloved by her and had to spend time with your Grandma, whilst she pursued a career, and you see the same happening to this baby, that he will be unloved by his mum and cared for by his Grandma. I am so sorry this happened to you hun and that you feel this experience has contributed greatly to your illness.

I think in the beginning of the illness, and during the acute stages of PNI, this lady is doing the right thing getting as much support as necessary, and it doesn't matter if the baby is with Grandma for a period of time, in times of need the family rally around and this is how is should be. Like me, gradually she will take control back, but it takes time and this baby is still very small yet, so I wouldn't worry too much about bonding at this stage...as long as this baby is being cared for is the main priority. As soon as her ADs kick in, and she perhaps gets some other help i.e counselling, you will notice her taking control of her life back, and the bond with her baby will come with time. At the moment she perhaps feels vulnerable and insecure and can't look after herself never mind a baby, and the Grandmas have stept in. I think from the sounds of it this baby was very much wanted (conceived via IVF) and still is, the mum just needs a bit of help and support to get her life back on track.

It took me around 10months ~ 1 year to make a bond with my youngest (I didn't have PNI with my eldest who is now 10yrs old) and now that I am almost recovered, I have a lovely bond with him and he is the apple of my eye. He was worth every sleepless hour, every intrusive thought, every step I took deeper down into that dark pit, and every numb feeling I ever felt, although I can only see that now, and couldn't back then.

I understand what you say about the hubby, and why isn't he helping out. It's very difficcut to know, but perhaps he too is suffering under the strain of what is happening to his wife. Here he is presented with a little baby and his wife is ill, and men don't know what to do at the best of times . It's something that affects the whole family.

I think what I would say to you, is give her some time, speak to her if you can and tell her that you understand, and perhaps you could refer her to this site, and we will reassure her that it's a temporary illness, one of which she will make a recovery from, and we will be here to answer any questions she may have. Would it be possible to do that?

Thank you for taking time to post your concerns, and for caring about this lady and her baby, if there's anything else you would like us to help you with, or any questions you have, then you know we are here.

Scarlet
xxxxxx