postnatal depression??

[charlotte]

???Hi there. i am so glad i came across this site, is just what i was looking for. well, my story goes like this, i had a miserable pregnancy due to my relationship with my partner going horribly wrong, i suffered morning sickness the whole time & horrid mood swings & was extremely insecure (still am), my partner handled the situation all wrong & we had lots of arguments which led to me feeling even more insecure, i didnt trust him & started thinking he wanted to be with another woman, either girls at his work or girls in bars & clubs etc, several times he went out & wouldnt answer my calls & i would think he was up to all sorts which led to more rows, anyway, due to all this by the time the baby was born i was an emotional wreck & suffered the baby blues which didnt seem to lift, i now have pnd but i dont know if anyone feels the same as i do, i have EXTREME anger inside of me & can blow up into a huge rage like never before, its all to do with not feeling loved by my partner & the resentment towards him for spoiling what should of been the most special time in my life, i cant deal with this anger & it seems every insident i am faced with i lust blow my top, screaming, crying, throwing things & basically being out of control, everything he says makes me worse, then i want him to love me more after when all i have done is push him further apart by calling him every name under the sun & sometimed physically hitting him. this is sometimes infron of my 9month old & i am so worried about this (he otherwise lives in a calm loving enviorment until these outbursts. has anyone suffered anger like this or am i crazy??? i am really scared to take antidepressents & am curently trying different natural products.
can anyone help me??
thanks.
charlotte.

[Veritee]

Hi Charlotte

Welcome to the forum - I hope we can support you here.

It does seem you are going through your own personal nightmare.

Your pregnancy does sound a lot like mine - mood swings etc and the anger you describe towards your partner very much like I felt at times towards my husband.

My partner very defiantly never gave me a minutes concern that he was seeing other women but even so at times I screamed at him, verbally abused him and like you once or twice actually hit him ( something he handled really well and we are still together 16 years later) I too felt let down by my husband and extremely angry!!!! However while I was very sorry I ever did it at all, I actually did not hit hard or try to hurt - just hit out in the complete frustration of my illness.

However you say 'its all to do with not feeling loved by my partner & the resentment towards him for spoiling what should of been the most special time in my life'

I felt like this but in fact apart from having his own difficulties adjusting to being a parent/father that made him distant ( and during my pregnancy and when my child was small go out drinking far to much and seem very detached - this is not an uncommon reaction however in many new dads I have known) he did not really do anything wrong and he did nothign really to provoke the horrible anger I felt.

Can I ask has your partner actually 'done anything' or is how you feel to do with your PNI - this was certainly my experience.

My partner was not as 'engaged ' with the whole process of having our baby - but I reacted like I did because I was ill - not because he really deserved it and while for me this did not happen until after the birth for 10% of women PNI can start during pregnancy.

So did your partner do anything or is the problem how you feel. At eh time I thought my husband deserved everything I threw at him ( and I threw a lot his way) but in retrospect while he did not react to the pregnancy and birth as I would have wanted in an ideal world - I know now he had his own problems adjusting to being a father a dad and he did the best he could.

Do you think this is the same for your partner or did he indeed stay or give you cause to be so angry??

As to anti- depressants - I did not take them and got through PNI but I often I now wish I had taken them as I do not think I would have been ill for so long.

I do understand your fear and on this forum about half take them and the other half feel like you do - but I do not think you need fear them - what is your own particular fear when it comes to taking Anti- Ds?

Also to get through without medication I had a lot of professional counselling and support as well as the 'alternative' medicines and therapies - do you have this?

Have you been diagnosed with PNI/PND or is this a conclusion you have come to on your own?

Even if you do not take medication it is still a good idea to go to your GP. They can offer other things like CBT but even if they do not it can help to tell someone how you feel and get a diagnosis. If anger is your only symptom you may not have PNI, just angry with your partner.

Have you looked through the forum and can you relate to any of the other symptoms women with PNI have described?

Any way I do understand the anger you feel - I have certainly been 'beside' myself and out of control with the anger I felt - but you will get better .

I hope this forum can be of help

All the best

Veritee

[wendabell]

sorry to here you are feeling the way you do.I can so relate to this anger you have towards your partner,for me it too was unbearable.And all i wanted was a hug or him to hold my hand and say everything would be ok.
It is ok now but not without its terrible downs and us nearlyparting a relationship that spanned over 10 years.
your not alone.this is quite common.dont sit in silence.
Come and talk to us,vent your anger on here hunny we wont judge you no matter how bad it gets.If you keep talking it does help.This site for me has been the major contributer to me being here today in recovery.
talk soon.
love wendy x.x.x

[charlotte]

Thank you so much for both the replies! i am crying as i read them as it finally seems like someone understands!!!! my self esteem is so low, all i want is for my partner to hold me & tell me he loves me & all he cares about is me but intead after a serious talk with him he finally confessed (he was very upset) but finally told me he is not sure how he feels about me, he knows he loves me but he doesnt think he loves me enuf! then he went out last night, just to stop myself thinking bad thought & wanting to compromise i asked him to come home at 1am, instesd he came at 2am with no phonecall etc, i then managed to get it out of him that he had talked & danced with another girl, (he only admitted this as 2 of my friends were at the same bar which he didnt know, he didnt see them but he had to tell me or else i would of found out anyway), i am really scared because half of me wants to tell him to p**s off & the other wamts to say please love me....its such a mess. i am so scared to go onte tablets as i have done some research & many people have felt worse, knowing me i will feel 10 times worse or something!!!! i am really unhappy, i dont know what love is, surely love doesnt hurt tlike this, my thoughts are irational aswell, sometimes i hear myself speak when i am cross & i really sound like a mad woman that might do some harm to someone, i scratched my partner this morning rally hard & drew blood, all this makes him feel even less for me yet i still persist, i feel ill, i cant even motivate myself to clean the flat today, i am better during the week when its just me & my baby as then i have to do everything. the guilt i feel when my baby see;s all this going on is mind blowing, i kiss him & say sorry 1000 times whilst crying & screaming at the same time, he has become very unsetteld & wants me all the time, he doesnt like any contact between myself & my partner even if i am trying to calm myself down, the minute i go near darren jaiden (my little boy, 9 months) starts to make a cross noise & panicks flapping his arms until i pick him up, he doesnt always go to darren & seems really cross most of his day, what am i doing to my beutiful baby!! has anyone else experienced this or am i just horrible??? how can i wreck my sons life like this, but at the same time my partner hasnt really helped, especially with what he told me today, i need the truth yet the truth hurts!
thanks for your time.
love charl. XX

[Veritee]

Dear Charlotte

Oh dear I am so sorry that things continue to be distressing for you - it does seem to me that your partner is going ut and doing exactly what is bound to make you angry and he must be aware of this.

However relationships are very complex and I would like to ask you - what does your husband do when you physically hurt him like today when you scratched him and drew blood?

I gather from what you said that like my husband, when I went for him when I had PNI - he does not retaliate physically?

I have to add that I only did this twice to Barry and not with force, I was still really upset I had done it at all and because he was so passive and did not retaliate I really admired him for this – so I never did it again. But I have heard form many women who have attacked their partners regularly all through their PNI – it is not uncommon

But while many men would never dream of hitting back when attacked by a woman it can still leave feelings that they are somehow less of a man

(although obviously a man who does not hit back is more of a man than one who does)

But to do this when you are physically attacked is hard for anyone and could lead him to have a need to re - assert himself in any way he can.

Mine did it by going down the pub a lot and becoming distant and withdrawing his affection - have you considered that your partner may be doing this and going out when he knows this is the opposite from what you want him to do and dancing with other women etc - because this is the only way he can assert himself?

- as for him not loving you 'enuf' it is hard to love someone when they are physically angry towards you - it seems to me that unless he is truly completely living a lie, seeing other women and enjoying the situation he is showing his love simply by the fact he is still around? But on the other hand he could ber living that lie and this leading you to be very angry - you really need to know what it is.

Have you thought that if all he did was actually dance with a women - while it would have been better if he had not gone out at all - but really dancing with someone if this is all it is, is not a really terrible thing - he could have done worse!

Anyway whatever is happening between you - it obviously can not go on like this - you are very distressed and it is my guess that inside - so is he and as you said it is not good for your lovely little boy, who you both obviously love.

You can get through this - you just need a little help and time.

You said that 'i am really scared because half of me wants to tell him to p**s off & the other wants to say please love me'

Why do you not say to him 'say please love me' - please give me more attention, this is what I want and this is why I am so angry?

You may already have asked him this but if not - what have you to lose? you obviously love him, but if all he gets from you is anger, sometimes physical attacks - and you have never said to him that all you want is him to love and care for you - he really may not know.

I am sorry I sound a bit like and agony aunt here - and I have no right to advice so please ignore all the above if it is not helpful , just disregard what I have said.

However, you have not answered my questions about yourself?

1. Have you been diagnosed with PNI or have you come to this conclusion on your own?

2. Do you have any other symptoms common with PNI - look on the main site here for a list of common symptoms – go to www.pni.org.uk/ and scroll down to the list

Feeling anger even to the point of violence is something some women with PNI suffer – but you would have other symptoms as well. Do you have other symptoms or does everything come down to your feeling that your partner is being unfaithful??

If you don’t have other symptoms associated with PNI then you could be absolutely right with your gut feeling and your partner is playing away from home and you are getting very angry because you sense this but he is not telling you the truth even though you confront him – if this is so then you are blaming yourself and consequently getting very angry.

If this were the case then of course you would feel very angry and frustrated – but if is why would he stay to be attacked physically by you because of this anger??

I need to have the answer to the questions above to try and help you make some sense of your situation??

I really do think that if you have not gone to your GP this should be your next step - they do have other things than medication to offer now and it would be helpful to have a diagnosis.

I was a bit concerned about you saying

'i am so scared to go on the tablets as i have done some research & many people have felt worse, knowing me i will feel 10 times worse or something!!!! '

Both myself and Wendy chose not to take medication - but I do not know of any research or data that points to women with PNI who take medication feeling worse!!!

There has been some recent concerns over serotax ( few women with PNI are prescribed this ) if taken by children and young people and some of the older medication was addictive.

But on the whole the benefits of medication for women with PNI outweigh the disadvantages.

In fact everything I have learnt from supporting women with PNI and from listening to women with PNI on this site does point to medication for PNI being helpful in the main.

( I am hoping her that women who have taken medication who have used this forum – might comment here and say how taking it was for them)

The majority of women on this site do take medication usually SSRIs such as Prozac, paroxetine, citalopram etc and some older tricylic ant- Ds and while few would say they are the cure in themselves that do really help most women to regulate their moods and get them through the symptoms of PNI.

I had very specific reasons my self for not taking medication and my PNI was many years ago so some of the newer drugs were not available then - but knowing what I do now I would probably take them rather than suffer what I did!

Have you been offered medication and refused it - or have you been too scared to go to the GP and talk this through?

Anyway :

I am sure that what I have said has not been very helpful as I sense the crux of the matter for you before you can start to take the right steps to get your life back on an even keel ( to get treatment and/or medication for PNI – or ask your partner to leave as he is being dishonest and not giving you the support you need seem to be central to your dilemma) is you need to know if any of your fears about your partner are justified before you can start to make some sense of it for yourself.


I will try to assist you make some sense of your situation (do you have PNI or is your partner being dishonest and lying and thus making you very angry and frustrated) but you must answer my questions about whether you have other symptoms, have you been diagnosed.



All the best

Veritee

[Veritee]

I am sorry bit my response above was very rambling and unfocused.

However your last post really did raise a lot of issues and I was not sure what to address first.

I can not tell you if you have PNI and it very well could be that you have relationship difficulties although physically attacking your partner and him taking it does seem to point to something more

So this is why I urge you to go to your GP and get a diagnosis if you can.

Also if you really do think you have PNI and your behaviour is really worrying your you are worried on the effects on your child – medication is an option and I think you have been wrongly advised that it can make women with PNI feel worse.

Medication is not without side effects and sometimes a particular one may not suit you so you have to change to another

But you do have to weigh up the benefits of medication with the disadvantages and side effects.

Anyway my heart does go out to you in your situation – I really do see how it is for you at the moment and really would want to support you to try t6o find a way though what seems to be a maze for you at the moment.

Please only take from what I have said anything that is helpful and disre4guard the rest.

When responding to someone on a forum like this where we can not see you or know anything beyond what you can say in a short post – we are often making stabs in the dark, but everything I say is meant well and I want to help

All the best for now

Veritee

[charlotte]

Hi Veritee.
thanks for your replys.
i went to my doctor twise telling him i felt out of control & i had irrational thoughts & couldnt sleep & i also had obsessive thoughts about my partner, i told him i feel like life is just sometimes not worth living, i am having panic atacks & also sometimes feel like i dont want to get up with my baby in the mornings, then the guilt takes over me& i spend the whole day saying sorry to him & crying...i also went to my health visitor & scored 19 on the questionaire when i think she said anything over 12 is classed as depressed. the doc gave me the tabs but i am quite a nervous person anyway & hate any medication, i even get side effects from panadol extra let alone a drug like that! tonite, i just left him indoors after all he said about not knowing how he feels about me, instead of staying home & crying, shouting etc i just went to the pub with my friend & had a drink & a chat, it was much better than hanging around at home just to feel lonely & fustrated.
thanks for all your help, i will consider the tablets but i am going to try carring on with my st.johns wort first & see how it goes, maybe i need out of this relationship & just concentrate on my little buba & me for once!
thanks. XXX

[wendabell]

firstly well done on going to the docs.It is the first step in recovery.
As for what you think you are doing to your lil un(jaiden a beautiful name) you are not honest. Ive had this with all three of mine and said and done the most horrible things. But i also explained that mummy was ill and that i would shout and cry a lot ( you can tell jaiden from an early age i did) they understand. The only way pni has affected them is that they are empathic to others feelings and that is not a bad trait. Talk talk talk,to your bub, to us , to your hv or doc but dont bottle it up.
The medication, you sound a bit like me.
I did try the st johns wort and valerian for a while but i have to admit it didnt help.I was weary of taking medication as i am terrible at my consistancy and tend to give up.I dont even take headache tablets.
I have struggled through this with my medication and been through a roler coster of being on and off them (my own fault) but i believe that they did help me and i became more focused. All they do is replace the seratonin levels in our brain which is the happy hormone we are lacking at the mo. Our brain has just forgotten how to make it. I hope this has helped to make it clearer.
As for your partner, i am so sorry. This does take its toll on relationships especially the one nearest to us.
I have still issues in talking to my hubby about this illness and he came on here himself to find out how i was feeling. Maybe you could show this site to yours.He would be more than welcome and is even a mens page.
I really hope you can work things out and if we can support all three of you we will try our best but in reality of course some relationships are just not meant to be and some of the other ladies on here have experienced that too.
Maybe you could ask for advice on the main board?
But most of all be kind to your self. I bet you are doing a fantastic job.Because we all do through this and we tend to hide it so well from the world,not a good thing but a true thing. And i bet your baby loves you so much and you give it back in moutain loads even if you feel you dont.Ok so the housework dont get done.A little dust never hurt anyone, just take bit size amounts each day of the essential thats how i coped.Make a list,lots of them as my memory was and still is a complete piece of swiss cheese. If you do something then tick it off, then you can look back and have a sence of achievement of what you did that day.
We all on here have a million and one different coping stratergys for this illness and are her to help you flower. so dont give up you have found friends on here.
love and hugs wendy x..xx

[Veritee]

Hi Charlotte

I agree with everything Wendy has said and she put it so well too.

Of course we respect any decision you make on medication ( after all I did not take them at all)

I just like to make sure women know all the options and I did not know if you had consulted your doctor etc.

Of course it is your decision also whether to go to your GP - I just asked so I did not keep suggesting it if you had either been or had decided against this course.

Many women have got through PNI with no medication or alternatives like St Johns Wort. Which if you see here : veritee.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=help&action=display&n=1&thread=2603

is known to be effective for depression.

Have you also looked at the medications thread for suggestions about getting through without medication click her to read: veritee.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=meds

But whatever you decide about your medication or relationship we will be here if you feel it will help to talk.

It can be very hard to decide about a relationship ( and to live through one when things are not good) and if you have PNI it can be devastating - so we do not mind if you want to discuss this or anything else

All the best for now

Veritee

[rach]

hi

sorry to hear youve been suffering, i still have the out burst at times and then feel guilty, my hubby found it hard to accept that i had pni and to a degree still does, im pleased that you have beento your gps, i have been on a number of antie ds and have now started to feel better however, regardless of anti ds or herbal remidies you will still have days of feeling like this however you will know if these are helping you if your good days start to become more frequent than your bad uns.

i really hope you start to feel better

ohhh and welcome by the way its a fab site that i could not of got by without

big hugs
luv rach

[Veritee]

Dear Charlotte

I noticed you have deleted your membership - I have e mailed you but let me reassure you that no one else has your email only myself as administrator of the forum and I will only try to contact you once.

I am worried about you and also concerned that we did not give you the 'right' response.

Please get back to us - you can post as a guest either now or if you feel you need us in the future

All the best

Veritee

[Carmen]

Hi Charlotte

I also experience a great amount of anger while suffering from PNI and I think the resentment of how your partner treats you, whilst youre suffering with PNI, can hang around for a long time. But I think its very difficult, if not impossible, for someone that hasnt suffered with any form of depression to truley understand how totally life consuming PNI can be. I'm not even sure if anything my husband could have done or said would have made any real difference as I didnt even understand the anger that I held inside.

My husband explained to me later how difficult it was for him. He said he would arrive home from work always ready for conflict - therefore being totally on the defensive, no matter what I said to him when he walked in the door. He would also linger on at work, not wanting to come home and be around me - never sure what type of mood I would be in.

The thing that seemed to help our relationship the most was by letting him read the posts on this forum so that he understood that I wasnt alone in the way I was behaving and it was just part of the illness and that one day I would recover.

And although it is entirely up to yourself I thought I should also comment on the issue of AD's. My sister suffered with PNI for 4 years without taking AD's and probably with added pressure from me as we come from a family that also used natural remedies for most illnesses. When I also got PNI after having my second child I also tried St Johns Wort which did seem to help for a month but then I hit bottom again. Finally after suffering from depression during pregnancy and 16 months after having my baby I went on the AD's and have steadily improved over time. My son will be 2 next month and although I am still on the AD's (and have had a couple of bad weeks while my oldest son was ill) I consider myself just about recovered. I dont think I would have come this far if I had not have gone on the AD's but I do understand your worries about going on them. I am fortunate enough to have a fantastic GP who told me she would not make me go through any horrible side effects and that it may take a while to find the correct AD and the right dosage. Luckily it didnt take too long as I initially went on Citroplam which didnt agree with me so then went on Paroxetine, starting at 10mg and gradually increasing it until 40mg which I am still on now and plan to begin weaning myself off in October which will make it 12 months of being on the AD's.

I hope this has helped a little and I hope you continue to talk with us. It really does help to talk to others that have been or are going through the same as you.

Take Care
Love Carmen

[Vikki]

Hi Charlotte

I hope this forum will help you, there are so many fantastic women on here who can support you through this nasty time.

I know you didn't want to take the meds, but have you seen your Dr about non Drug related therapies, such as counselling or Cognitive Behaviour therapy.

I didn't want to take meds at all, but got very bad and felt like I had no choice.

I have had a few problems with meds, but very specific to me, not things that everyone would experience, but I am still looking for one to take as I know it will help me.

It is worth going back to your Gp and telling him you don't want to take the meds, there is more they can do to help you.

Hope you are feeling better soon

Vikki

[Veritee]

Just to say - I thought all of you who have replied to Charlotte would like to know that I have heard from her and she deleted her membership by accident

and I am sure she will not mind me letting you know that both her and her partner have found your replies helpful and reading past posts and that she will be back on the forum in future.

I did not say before as I thought Charlotte might be back sooner to say this herself - but as I know that those of you who have responded to her thread may be worried that he membership has been deleted and she has not come back on

So I thought it would be in order to let you know she is OK and found your responses helpful

All the best

Veritee

[charlotte]

:)Hi everyone, i hope all is ok! well, just to let you know how my week has been, it started off pretty badly with me & my partner argueing (again) about the same sort of stuff, i felt rejected about certain things & he withheld his affection from me, we had a talk & decided to go to relate (we had gone several months ago & never gone back), i found this along with my pnd support group very helpful, i can let out my feelings & really be heard, this is really helping me deal with my thoughts & feelings. i am still feeling down but much better than before, although i know i will prob have a few bad days yet but i am definatly having several good ones too. i habe joined pilates which is also good for unwinding & concentrating on yourself.
i am still not taking the anti d's but continuing with my st.johns wort.
thanks for your concern over the membership being deleted some how, still dont know how that happened!!!!
thanks.
charl.