Is this PNI?

[fruitcake]

Hi everyone I'm 'fruitcake' (Sal).

I dont know quite how to describe my problem (I thought at first it was LEAD poisoning, then MERCURY poisoning then finally carbon monoxide poisoning....... the symptoms are all very similar to PNI) .

i had my first baby in 1999, he was diagnosed with bilateral talipes at 20wk scan.this was a very traumatic time, first born and wouldnt be perfect.
(is this selfish?)
To cut along story short JOSEF was born with talipes after a long difficult labour.
he was beautiful and i instantly fell in love with him, the only baby blues i had was the discomfort i felt from episotomy, which later had to be re done as i was in agony...
josef had to endure many uncomfortable treetments and operations,for him to be able to walk normal.this was very very upsetting.
I then found out 4 months later i was pregnant again.
On top of all this my partner was trying to start up a newbusiness .
we had no money, i was working 20 hours , he was working all hours god sends.I felt very sad and alone.
After the birth of my daughter Megan who was born perfectly normal, i guess the pressure started to build from then.
when Megan was 18 months old i began having periods of break downs , feelings of not being able to cope,mood swings irritability,no sex drive,lack of concentration,low self esteem,paranoia,self concious,and many more if only i could remember.
The business was getting more harder and costly to run.We was at aposition were we needed to borrow big money for bigger premises.Neither of us at the time should have been making such decisions as looking back we were both suffering from stress.
Anyway the business was wrapped up end of 2003 owing a huge debt.Which we have nearly cleared now in 2005. We went on our first family holiday in 2004 summer. That was the first time we had really bought anything for ourselves since the business mess!!
I nearly forgot i was put on sertraline for depression in 2003 i stayed on it for about 2 months but it made me feel spaced out. i felt much better coming off it.I have always had an obsession since my first born,with the fact that i know im no longer in control of myself. I thought it was due to some kind of poisoning ie mercury or the boiler.
We have a very old boiler which we have never had serviced (12 years ) to our knowlledge,.
the last 3 weeks,since switching off the boiler i have felt 100% better. I have been taking 5g of vit c and omega 3 fish oil capsules daily.Last week aplumber gave our fires and boiler the all clear.No traces of co what so ever???
My partner by this stage loses his patience with me quite easily id almost convinced him until the plumber came, then he just thought i was a looney and it was all in my head. Back to square 1 again.
I was feeling more myself again now, i hadnt realised how bad i was until i started to feel better again.I could think again ,problem solve,i had reasoning back,confidence,conversation,concentration,organisation,calmness, and i no longer felt cold to my partener.(I didnt feel uneasy having a cuddle)
We have got to the point were weve both had enough and nearly called it a day,but weve hung on in there.
Anyway it had dropped a little cold the last 2 days so weve put the boiler back on again, only for me to expierience the feelingsthat i had ie..
moodyness
lack of confidence cant face strangers.
rage usually towards my kids (uncontrollable anger) then afterwards id be really mad with myself for losing it (there good kids really)
indecissive.
claustrophobic
palpatations i have low blood pressure i used to be normal???

once id left the house kids in tow and met a friend in the park i instantly felt better.
On returning home i felt alot better than when i left. My partner is convinced i have sad and pni what do you think??

Has anyone else had these 2 combined?
can you have pni for6 years and if so does it sound like im getting over it having over 2 weeks good days,
Does anyone think they can help me ?
Please im desperate for any ideas
thankyou Sal.

[Veritee]

Dear Sal

A big Welcome to the forum.

You did have such a hard time and to be pregnant so soon after such a hard birth and with a business to run - well everyone would find this difficult to day the least.

You are not selfish at all - you went through a horrible time with your first baby and as I know well this is a touch one to get over.

No one wants their baby’s life and first months to start like that and if you did have a bad time you will not have the happy memories that make it all a positive experience.

In answer to your last question - yes you can certainly have PNI for 6 or more years, especially if you have had another baby in between before you got over the original PNI not really acknowledged/accepted it and have not had effective treatment that suits you and or support and therapy.

( most of the women who have had PNI for a long time who come on this site had further babies while still suffering PNI with the first - but I had PNI for 5 years with one baby and their have been others who have had it for much longer)


I can not answer whether you have PNI or not, or whether you have some kind of poisoning due to your boiler!!

Only you can really answer this and in conjunction with medical advice - but I will give you my opinion:

The fact your boiler checks out OK would seem to point to the fact it is not this, however I do accept that their are people who are particularly sensitive to levels of household contaminants or other things that others would not notice - did you have any of the symptoms using the same boiler before you had your baby??

I have first hand experience of this so I will not rule it out -I will explain later if you are interested? Let me know?


However having said this I have to say that your conviction that 'the boiler' is causing your illness sounds so EXACTLY like the sort of obsession/destructive thoughts that many women with PNI get!

( I say destructive as if you do have PNI and it is not the boiler or any other physical cause, as long as your thoughts concentrate on the boiler and not on acceptance of PNI and finding ways that will help you get well - it is not positive to yourself and perhaps also your family!


As long as you blame an out side factor for how you feel you will not concentrate on getting the help you need and of course if medication or counselling would help – this is individual choice – you will not give it a real chance as inside you believe it is all down to your boiler)

Also I am sure that if this is PNI the thoughts do not just end with you thinking that the 'boiler' is making you ill, thoughts like this with PNI are often also accompanied by 'morbid' thoughts of it causing either your death of your members of your family - do you have thoughts like this?[/b]

What also makes me think it might be PNI is that you seem so much to WANT to believe you are being poisoned rather than it is PNI?

Feelings that you are being poisoned if caused by your emotional /mental state are so often a way of feeling punished ( this is just textbook psychology here - it may or may not apply to you and bear in mind I am no expert)

The obvious reason that springs to mind is one that affects many women who have come on here who’s babies had difficult times in the womb and at birth and especially if they continued to struggle and need medical intervention

- that is feeling guilty and that you are somehow to blame for your baby’s pain and discomfort - it is your fault- but no one else blames or punishes you so you have thoughts like this.

Having said this - I am not an expert and I don’t even know you beyond your few words.

What I am trying to say is it is important that you find out - at least in your own mind - which it is and there are ways to do this.

As I said above I would not rule out sensitivity to the 'boiler' or to something else, although my gut feeling is you have PNI.


So you could have allergen testing – this would have to be done privately I would expect?

Or of course change the boiler – I know this will be expensive but if it helps you peace of mind it might be worth it. ( but I will point out boilers of that age can be perfectly OK – mine is 22 years old and have few emissions at all, it is tested and serviced each year – you really should do this with all boilers , I do not know why you left it for 12 years?)

But the simplest way would be to switch off the boiler altogether at least till September and set your home up with alternative supplementary heating for the time being. ie electric oil filled radiator fires, immersion heater for water.

If it is PNI your symptoms will come back before then as it is not uncommon to have a relief of the symptoms if you are blaming a particular thing for them and take this cause away – but if it is PNI your symptoms will eventually come back, or you will get different symptoms or blame something else!
But you must keep it switched off for long enough as if it is not the boiler , if you switch it back on at any time in that 5/5 months – you will still beleve any symptoms are due to it.

What you are experiencing is not dissimilar to many women who come on here who are sure their physical and mental symptoms are because they believe they are suffering/dieing from some disease yet to be detected.

I always say for them to badger their doctor to have every test possible and it is usually only after absolutely no cause has been found that they fully accept it is PNI.

And in my experience it is only after you accept, fully tell your story and understand any feelings of guilt etc it that you stop fighting it and start to recover. I think PNI has an initial hormonal trigger too, but you still have to accept you have it in order to do the right things to get well.

At the same time as eliminating the boiler if you do not want to take medication – and about half on this site do the other half do not, (I didn’t but I think I would have got better quicker if I had)

Why not either go to your GP or ask for counselling/psychotherapy – not Cognitive Behavioural Therapy in your case as you are not doing it yet to find a way to cope with your symptoms, but as a way to find out if they are caused by guilt etc?.

Or pay privately for about 5 sessions of expert private therapy specifically to look at whether you have a need to ‘blame ‘something outside for what you feel internally.

Having said this – these are only suggestions. I think eliminating the boiler or not once and for all could be a good move but as to anything else this is really up to you – counselling does not suit everyone.

But you do need support and this does really help.

So whatever you do you are welcome to come on here and talk to us and we will try to support you

All the best

Veritee

[francoise]

hi sal

personally i think that when we have pni we are so sensitive to allergies and any little hormonal activity that we tend to get other things to , i think its our low ebb that does it , its like we need a massive tonic to help us get some strength to fight off stuff , i sympathise with you massively as im am going thru lists off things that at the time im convinced about but then gets crossed off again as another non starter , my doc reckons pni is a acombination of issues like guilt and to being one of them like vee says , anyway good luck hun

fran xxx

[VERITEE]

thanks veritee and francoise for your understanding tone.Its not very often anyone really understands how i feel.well today ive had another good day,and im taking your advice veritee,the boiler is staying off for a few months.
I didnt realise at the time, just how traumatic my life had been since my first born ,i just put itdown to normal stresses and strains. I t wasnt until i wrote my message , that i realised just how hard my life had been you just go along with the flow.
Anyway im going to see how i go, im not afraid or embarressed to accept i have pni .If i find it is my problem i will feel relieved and then hopefully i can move on.
I probably will never know what caused Joes talipes, but im worried about when Joe decides to have a family ,i dont know if it is genetic or not??
This is why i have a burning feeling inside me for the need to know.
I was exposed to lead when i was 6 weeks pregnant, i didnt know at the time.We decided to start decorating the house unknown to us but i had been blow tourching lead paint off a door for about 20 mins.Once i knew i was pregnant i asked my midwife if i should be concerned she said no the exposure wouldnt have been long enough.But since i hav read conflicting info.So im no wiser.
It was a good idea about badgering the dr, i think ill have a few tests done .
The weather has been fine today no signs of sad, so i guess ill just have to wait and see how i go.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR THOUGHTFUL REPLIES
SALXX

[Carmen]

Hi Sal

Welcome to the forum. I just wondered if any of my symptoms sounded the same as yours. Before being diagnosed with PNI (baby was 16 months) I suffered with so many physical complaints I really believed that I was dying. I know I'm not alone in saying that I also felt like I had been poisoned. Its really hard to explain but I felt all tingly, even to touch, and like there was some sort of poison or drug running through my blood.

I had diahrea (sorry I never remember how to spell that) or constipation. I constantly suffered from nausea, especially in the mornings and on a couple of occassions I did vomit. I had pains in my chest and suffered from heartburn which I had never had before.

I really thought I was going to dye. I thought I'd been poisoned, had stomach, bowell or brain cancer, or just thought I was going crazy!!

I was moody, soooo indecisive, sooooo paranoid. Would analise everything I and others said and just basically was thinking way way too much. My mind would just go around and around and around with constant arguing inside my head.

Does any of this sound familiar???

Take care and thinking of you
Love Carmen

[wendabell]

hi sal,
just seen you online and wondered how you are.
wendy