Poss PNI

[Kimbers]

Hello all

I have a son who is 14 months old on 25th August.

I have just come back from the GPs and have been prescribed Fluxotine for panic attacks.
My GP has just mentioned to me that she believes I have PND. I am to go back in 2 weeks for another check.

The reason I am on here is that I have been suffering quite badly for last two months with severe palpitations - these in turn have caused me to have panic attacks - which again seem to be forcing me down the agrophobic route- i just took last week off work as holiday to try and relax.
Has anyone else had palpitations?

[Veritee]

Dear Kimbers

A big welcome to the forum - I hope it will be of interest to you.

Have you been offered anythign else in addition to your Anti Ds such as visits from a CPN, HV etc or counselling?

It does sound to me like you could have PNI and yes many women with PNI do have palpitations. I think they are so common that we even do not always bother to mention them.

Palpitations are very common with any kind of stress, or emotional or mental upheaval but when you have PNI it often starts frightening trains of thought

A typical scenario is the palpitations make you think of the possibility that you are having a heart attack or dieing and with the sorts of thoughts women with PNI get - this then leads to a whole lot more thoughts that can really panic

about things like - what will your baby and family do if you die

what if you die when their is no one around and you baby is left on their own
and of course a fear of going out in case you are taken ill or even just in case you panic in the street ( agoraphobia with PNI is very common)

and these types of thoughts can escalate until you are in a almost permanent panic attack.

I am not saying that your pattern of thought when you get palpitations is exactly like this or even near as we are all different with different fears and it is not only palpitations that lead to these sorts of thoughts and panics.

Some experience tightening of the throat and chest and difficulties in breathing

( again very common with stress as it is part of the flight of fight reflex, but in this case there is nothing to fight and no where to run - so you panic instead)

But this was the pattern for me with palpitations and others have said similar so I thought it might be helpful to hear our experiences.

These panics are an awful thing to have to endure, but it does help to know that you are not alone in suffering this and I think that many on hear will be able to give you their tips and techniques for getting through them.

Also many find that if you can not sleep as you are panicking - as the forum is available 24/7 it helps to come on here and post what you are thinking and experiencing.

I could be that no one is around and you do not get an answer until the morning, but it can just help to write it down knowing someone will read it.

Another thing that can help is to keep a PNI diary veritee.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=Journal to document what makes you feel worse and what sets off panic and other symptoms to try and identify trigger points.

Reading past posts can also help

Have you tried these sections or done a search?
veritee.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=physical

veritee.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=thoughts

all the best for now

Veritee

[cheshire]

Hello Kimbers

You will find alot of spport here on this site. Palpitations and panic attacks - yes I know exactly what you mean as do many other women on this site. I wish my GP had prescribed me something like that too! I am in recovery although I have some way to go yet - but the symptoms are lessening every day at the moment (particularly panic and palpitations etc. ) - I have turned a corner and so will you. I want you to know that as I really did not believe that I would ever be free of these symptoms, but I am gettiong there. Talking to others on this site really helps. Just spend some time reading postings - particularly 'support for PnI' and 'physical symptoms' - you will probably be amazed by how similar your experience is to those on here. It was a really comforting thing for me.

I must admit I'm still trying to climb out of the phobic route but am getting there. I had a late diagnosis, but form what I have been told these symptoms are 'normal' in terms of PNI/ D.

Take care and just ask or say anthing if you can

Take care, Hopefulx

[Kimbers]

Hi there
Thanks so much for your replies. My mother and sister in law have bee saying to me for months to get to docs cos of the way I have been feeling.

I havent had any thoughts about harming myself or baby etc but I do have thoughts that I am a horrible person and dont deserve anyone.

I also look at my son and I pity him that he has me as his mother.
I have stopped drinking any alcohol recently too as that made me lose it one night and try to get out the door (dont know where I was going!!).
My husband actually slept on the floor in front of door as he thought I would sneak off when he went to bed.

I have been having panic attacks for 2 months as I get palpitations, chest pains, find it hard to breathe...my heart skips beats almost ALL day and the only way I can deal with that is to not sit down really. I dont stop all day then I am knackered.

I am having a 24hr ECG on thursday of this week as I am convinced I am going to have a heart attack. Have been taken to A&E three times since July 12th once in an ambulance.

I dont know if I do have PNI, but reading some of the posts on here has made me think maybe I have...but I dont know ...still think I am going to die at the back of my mind and not see my son grow up.

I am going to come on here everday now and learn as much as possible...thanks so much

[cheshire]

Kimberley

You could be me! No-one really wants to harm their baby. In fact, although I am no expert, I think anxiety perhaps takes you down this road.But like you, have done paramedics to the house, ECG, heart and lung scan in total I think 5 times. The thing about being so anxious , I found , is that a. you don't trust yourself so you think you will harm them unwittingly (drop them, fall on them, you die whilst you are alone with them, get locked out etc. or b. when you are very anxious you just want them to be quiet and go away. When I got like the latter, I phoned a helpline and usually by the time I had finished talking the child and I had calmed down.

My husband is planning to write something on this site maybe that will help other men..don't know

I still always think I am going to die - I met another person at a party recently who also said she spent time writing wills, checking moles, feeling for lumps...

I don't do that now by the way. Believe me, you will get better but accept it will take time. I am a driven person and try to rush things along too much!

Thinking of you
Hopefulxx

[looney]

Hi Kimbers,
Im so sorry to hear about your panic attacks. i also suffer from them and would not wish them on my worst enemy! Can i ask have you only been gatting them since having your child? i have a 8 month old baby girl and am suffering with PNI and major anxiety. i am now on anxiety medication which was working at first but i think i may need them jumped up now because i am suffering again although not to the same extent. i also have been to the hospital thinking i was having heart attacks and have had xrays etc etc. i still have the thoughts that i am going to die if not from my heart then froma brain tumor or anyhing else. i find it hard to come to grips with the physical aspects of PNI and anxiety and find that if im not upset im sick which causes me to get upset and cant sleep at night. does this all sound familiar? i hope you find some comfort from this site i have found it helps me when im anxious and having bad thoughts (nearly all the time). Good luck!

[Kimbers1]

Hi there

My child is 14 months and I have only been having the panic attacks for 2 months....before that I was just very highly strung, and couldnt cope with the simplest of stresses. Ie if ther is mess in the house when I get in from work - I will just flip...
I have not been diagnosed with PND yet - my GP has just said she thinks its what I have. I am to go back again in 2 weeks to see how pills are helping and and going to be referred to phsycologist.
I found this website on Google and went on and found my symptoms were so much like some of the other ladies.
I cant understand why I have only been having panic attacks for 2 months...I would have thought I would have had them ages ago..
When my son was born I had a C-section under general anaesthetic and I have read that they can be a trigger. It did take me a while to bond with him too when we got home I would be hanging out washing and tidying and let everyone else do the feeding for me.

I have been getting palpiations which woke me up one night in July and were so bad I thought I was having a heart attack - my heart seems to miss a beat (ectopic beat I was told I did have). I have found myself checkin my pulse all day and its got to the stage where I can feel it thudding 90% off the time. Some times it speeds up to 120 bts per min and they tend to be the times I have the panic attacks. What I dont know is if the panic is caused by the palpitations or if I am just in the early stages of a panic attack.
I get his black cloud that looms over me and sends like what I describe as a rush though me. Especilally in my chest - it feels like I am going over a hump in the car you know - but in my chest.
I had that all last night in bed and couldnt sleep. I have convinced myeslf I have heart problem - but so far all test are negative - I have a 24 hour ecg tomorrow so will see then!
I also start thinking that I have lung cancer too. And I get all hot and panicky over that.

Sorry about me going on!

[Veritee]

Hi again Kimbers

I had a Cesarean under general too ( and after eclampsia and hemorrhaging ) and I think you are perfectly right when you say this can bring on panics - who knows what you remember subconsiosly when you are under a General?

But as to why you only started them recently and the birth was several months ago....

This was my experience too. While I knew fairly early on after the birth that something was not right - heard voices about the 2nd day and had overwhelming headaches by the 4th which came almost daily for the next 12 months and were debilitating, then dizziness and vision problems -

but it was only after 6 or more months ( not sure exactly now of the timing as it was so long ago for me now) that the panics truly started and then not until over 9 months that I began to get really nastily thoughts

( although I did have one episode or panic and what if thoughts, the week I brought her home and the first time Barry left me alone with Caja)

I had PNI for several years but I found that the symptoms changed over time and I seem to have had by the time I was fully recover nearly every symptom ever described on here to some extent

- and what symptoms I found the most difficult to cope with would change at any one time - so at first it was the physical symptoms ie the headaches and so many more physical symptoms too many to mention here - through to th horrible thoughts being the last to go for me.

And for others it has been several months - even over a year before the full force of PNI hit them.

I do hope that this is not going to be how it is for you ( and others do get completely better in less than a year so you just never know)

but all I want to say is in my opinion what you describe ie the panics starting after several months is not unusual with PNI and it helps to see them for what they are - a temporary symptom.

And it is temporary

only 10 minutes ago I was talking to a friend who visited this morning who had in fact panic and agoraphobic symptoms 18 years ago with her first.

She could not even do her shopping as she panicked every time she went in a shop and could not sleep for panicking for a year or so.

But this was so long ago for her ( she started fairly young with children so she is only in her 30s)

Thant she has all but forgotten it!

The only reason she remembered is because I run this forum and this reminded her of it.

So one day this will all be in the past for you to but in the meantime you need to be kind to yourself and get all the help you need

All the best

Veritee

[looney]

Hey Kimbers
My panic attacks also didnt hit me full blown until my babe was about 5 months and they seemed to start during a time of a lot of stress (i had exams and other stress). i also seem to monitor my heart beat all day in fact i couldnt sleep last night because my heart beat seemed to be sooooo loud and fast that it kept me up. When i went into hospital thiking i was having a heart attack they actually did find something with my heart but it had nothing to do with the chest pain but now i have had to wait until september to see a heart specialist so that doesnt help with the whole monitoring my heart beat thing. i find i was worse im not quite so obsessive over it now but i still worry about the effects of my daily activities on my heart ie fast walking etc and check how fast its going. Its good to hear your story and realise hey im not the only one so i hope you get that from mine as well. bye for now thinking of you

[Veritee]

Sorry Kimbers

Forgot to add.

I know you will find it hard to believe but I went through exactly the same as you with the heart monitoring and the ectopic beat!

I am sure women on hear sometimes think I am making it up when I write back to someone and say:

''yes I had this, yes I had that investigation, yes I saw a specialist for that' yes I had that symptom'

But I assure you that if I say I had it - I did have it!

and I think like many of us by the time you are recovered you will find you are able to relate like I can to many of the experiences that women have been through on here.

PNI has many diverse symptoms, but mostly they are related to stress ( well more like outright fear and panic really) and stress does cause certain bodily reactions - including all the ones we get when we have PNI.

We also all seem to share the worry that we are not good mums - or even bad ones - so we get various thoughts in common tired up with that...

For some of us like me our thoughts go a bit father ie I had thoughts that I would ( not wanted as this is another thing and I never wanted to harm my beautiful baby) but thoughts that I would harm her because I was evil, not a good mum etc

For others these thoughts only get to the ' what if stage; ie what is I cross the road with a pram and I do not see the traffic - what if my precious baby gets ill and I don't get her to the doctor in time ' etc

Some never have these thoughts but have thoughts about their own health.

But we all seem to share many experiences - and I certainly do share what is happening with you with your palpitations!!!!!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In common with many others with PNI I also had palpitations so bad and that worried me so much - my heart to me seemed to skip a beat - that I also went to a specialist and had a 24 hour monitoring device.

I was working as a coordinator of a youth project and on the outside was functioning well in a stressful job despite my PNI .

However I was going home every night to a night of no sleep, panics, and even hallucinations , and terrible thoughts which actually being at work seemed to keep at bay so I think the stress of this had to come out somewhere even in the day when my mind was occupied with other things


But because it happened too in the day when I was less stressed I was convinced that this had to be a psychical - of course at night on my own I still had the palpitations and the missed beat even worse.


This was when my baby was about a year - for me this was over 15 years ago and I am actually a very healthy person in my 50s with certainly no heart disease.

But at the time I was convinced there was something really wrong!!

The upshot of my test was actually I did have a completely harmless anomaly in my heartbeat - the same as you an ectopic beat ( did nto know a misse beat was called this but I had a missed beat).

but one that would do me no harm - one I may have been born with!

Personally I am not now sure that I was born with it as it is gone now ! I asked if it was still there recently when I had an intensive check up for a big operation I am to have on my leg ( I was disabled in an accident, the op is an attempt to fix my leg)

- I have since been told by a GP friend who advises this site that severe stress can make your heart miss a beat like this for a time, but that it is very harmless and even fit athletes under the stress of competition get this but still win!

But this brings me to my point, many woman with PNI find that no only do they develop fears about things that are perfectly normal ( the doctor said I had become hypersensitive to the sound/vibration of my own heart beat something I would never have noticed before)

and they can also have real physical symptoms brought on by stress.

But that they also notice health issues that they may have had for years and had not bothered them -

Another thing I only started noticing when I had PNI was that I had had a broken nose since I was 15 with shattered bone inside of it although it looked OK from the outside.

It had never bothered me at all - I guess I had had sinus symptoms but I just would take a painkiller and get on with life.

But when I had PNI I just found my sinus problem unbearable and when Caja was 2 went and had an operation to repair my shattered nose.

So not only are the physical symptoms you describe so very common with PNI and probably like the most of us there is nothing actually wrong , just that you are now noticing things about your health and body you never did before...

But it is possible that you also have some health issue brought on by stress so it is best to have everything checked out.

I am trying to reassure you that what you are going through is your PNI and not any life threatening illness.

However I know you will not believe me because when you have PNI you often feel so psychically unwell all of the time, when you never did before - that you just can not believe that the way you are feeling can be caused by an emotional/mental illness!

If someone suggests it is you feel that it is just not being taken seriously and that something could be missed.

I know that very little I say will alter this as their are women on this site that I have said all the some things to and they are still struggling with this month after month - still going to their GP all the timer and different specialists for different tests - just as I did for nearly 2 years.

But this is caused by your PNI

but this does not mean that it is not real - I am not for a minute suggesting anyone imagines these symptoms or makes them up.

They are very real - my sinus and missed heart beat were real and detectable as were all the other psychical symptoms I had when I had PNI

What I am saying is that your mind is not at all separate from your body and being as stressed, scared, distressed, depressed, anxious as women with PNI do get can take a toll on your body due to a lowered immune system and stress related illness or symptoms.

But what is on your side is that most woman who have PNI are relatively young and fit

( I mean you are all women of childbearing age not a sedentary businessman in his 50s for whom this level of stress could have a lasting effect)

So suffering this level of stress and anxiety when we have PNI for even up to a few years does not actually do us lasting harm -

But it is important to =look after yourself and make sure there are no lasting effects.

So my advice to get through this aspect of PNI is:

Get every symptom throughly checked out by going to your doctor and getting referred on for further tests if necessary.

Do not worry about how often you are at the surgery - live there if you need to as these symptoms are really happening to you so they should be checked out

Get anything that can be fixed - fixed - as I did my sinus as that means there is one less physical problem to worry about

But once something is checked out and/or treated or you are told it is OK - try to believe that it is OK - that this symptom sis not life threatening and is part of PNI stress and when PNI goes it will go!

In the meantime do your best to limit your stress:

ie be kind to yourself, do not expect too much of yourself, change eating habits or sleeping habits if it will help, take medication offered, try alternative or complimentary therapies if you can afford it as this may relax you, get as much help and support as you can, if you feel your fail today - there is always tomorrow, take baby steps with everything and try stuff you can succeed at - not things you can not

Anyway

I do not know if this will help but please use this forum

Did you get the results of your 24 hour monitoring yet?

Al the best

Veritee

[cheshire]

Dear All,

This last posting by Veritee just reminded of something my cousellor and GP have said recently - that things/ conditions that maybe gave/ give you miniumal trouble before/ after PNI can be worsened by PNI/ high levels of anxiety. I thought this was really interesting. I'm afraid I can't remember what I said to them that made them reassure me like this ..but anyway, just goes to show how PNI can ''turn the volume up on anything 'negative' ''.

Hopefulx
p.s. Kimberley, the paliptations, breathlessness, panic plagued me for almost a year and I developed all sorts of new phobias in an attempt to try to control my heart rate etc. Although I am having trouble again at night at the moment, some days now are completely free of breathlessness and panic..I can't remember when this happened but just that I've started looking back at how much more I am able to do and that I am starting to feel happy again
You will get to this point too

[KIMBERS1]

Hiya

Vertitee, I have not had back results of 24 hr tape yet - will take 2-3 weeks apparently. But nothing major happened that day! But when I had it removed yesterday am I had some! I knew that would happen.
I am suffering with it mildy as I type and have been since about 9am.(its 10:50 now!) Kind of makes me a bit shaky and breathless. No pain at mo tho.

Last night I had what I think may be halluciantion.
I was watchign Eastenders and at the end, Ian Beale, Kat and Sam all had eyes like lizards.
I know it sounds stupid but it really frightened me as taht has never happened before and when I looked at pics of my son on the side they looked similar..anyway I went straight to bed and told myself that I was imagining things.
I slept very well - but had to have the hall light on! Somehting I have not done since I was about seven!

ANyway I have been on the FLuxo since Monday now so have taken 5 tablets ....do you think this sight was the tablets kicking in???
Never had it before.

Thanks

Kimbers

[Veritee]

Oh I forgot that the 24 hour tape results take a while!

I too did not have an attack while the tape was on - but had lots the next day

but they could still see my missed beat whether or not I was aware of it ( being aware of it usually happens when you are panicking or anxious and become hypersensitive to your own body.

As to the was you saw the people on East enders last night.

This sort of experience was something I had - saw people on the TV as looking evil ,sometimes they would seem to be staring at me and lots of other strange effects - but as you know I never did take any medication so as to whether it is a side effect of the medication I only have others experiences to go on and yes on SSRI type Anti Ds many have had hallucinations as a side effect.

but yes this could very well be a side effect of your medication as much as from you PNI ( I take it you mean fluoxetine ie Prozac?)
Although this is not common with this drug.

I have to go now but I will be back later

Let us know how you are later on

All the best

Veritee

[kimbers1]

Yes I am on Fluoxetine - 20mg capsules.
I had a glass of baileys last night - maybe that reacted wth the pills.
I just cant understand why its taken 12 months for symptoms to peak like this.....I still have doubts in my mind that its PNI and I am just a loony to be honest.

My mum is here now - my husband has gone to work and I just didnt want to be on my own today.

I read that this pills can make you worse before making you better - is that true in anyones experience?
Ie in the first 2 weeks.
I felt great on Tuesday like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders when the doctor said she would put me on pill cos she was taking me seriously - not thinking i was a moody cow like everyone else has been!
It was so much better that day afterbut since then it has got steadily worse...

I feel ok at mo - going to go to Safeways with my mum after my son wakes from his nap....

But have still got that awful black cloud.............cant wait to wake up and it be gone.

[Veritee]

You are not a 'loony'

so many on here wonder this and some who have it for more than a few months ask this again - having been reassured initially that they have PNI, they again start to doubt this and think they have suddenly and inexplicably after never having any problems before - become mentally ill.

But we all share one thing in common - we had a baby and we had symptoms we had never experienced before

Even those who had had a mental or emotional illness before - find what they experience after having a baby - is totally different.

The fact is that even people with existing problems can get PNI as can those who have never had a moments depression or anxiety.

So no you are not a loony
you have PNI and your will get better
but this could take some time

The trick to getting through PNI I found was to learn to live well with PNI

and not to keep trying to find ways not to have PNI.

As PNI will not go away overnight
But it is possible to make the most of it - not to expect too much of yourself - to take your time - to get all the help you can.

I hope shopping went OK today - it is good you have support from your mum ( did she have PNI by the way, mine did?)

That big black cloud/feeling of dread is very common unfortunately of PNI, I did have it for some time , but yes you do wake up one day without it

All the best

Veritee