rosie
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by rosie on Feb 9, 2004 21:57:48 GMT
I wonder if anyone out there is suffering with the same thoughts as me, I seem to have thoughts popping into my head like snooker balls on a snooker table - they mainly consist of horrible thoughts about harming myself or my daughter. things such as a knife going into her or me and thoughts of me hitting my head against something - really weird and upsetting. I find `i can be talking to someone about something and whoosh in comes a bizarre thought. Please tell me it will go as I have had this for 15 months now and thought I would be well by now. I have gone on and off different anti-deps but am now on venlafaxine and have been for 5 weeks with little side effects. Rosie
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Post by deborah on Feb 9, 2004 22:31:31 GMT
Rosie, i too had 'weird thoughts' just like you. I was started on venlafaxine and had the dose increased to it's maximum. To do this i was admitted to a mum & baby Unit but it can be done by your GP. It works when the dose to control the symptoms eg the thoughts go away.It takes a bit of time to get the right level for your symptoms so persevere. I run a support group, helpline and via my e-mail address i help women in my area derbyshire. I had PNI twice and it was very severe. Please don't think you are going to act on the thoughts because usually women with bizarre thoughts due to PNI its a part of your illness. it is NOT the same as patients with schizophrenia- that's the problem i feel. People /women who have this illness think it is the same as the chronic forms of mental illness but it isn't. I'm aware of some psychiartrists who may argue that PNI is like other types of depression, anxiety states, etc but it is not. There are other doctors who believe quite rightly too, that PNI is different.The thoughts that are part of the illness are seen to be 'preventative' thoughts. This means if you think about sday, boiling water being poured onto your child/baby it's not because you will do that its part of your motherly instincts about being aware of the threats and dangers which could occur to your baby. Being a new mother makes you vigilent anyway, having PNI makes that vigilence more acute.The medical profession call it ''hypervigilance''. Please Rosie remeber this, you are not the only one to have this illness, nor are you the only mum to have 'bizarre thoughts'. Be kind to yourself, do whatever makes you feel safe when it happens, for example tell your mother if she is with you and you have a good relationship with her, or your husband or partner, trusted friend. When the venlafaxine is titrated to rid you of these symptoms, you will start to make some progress. The thoughts will go away. I hope this helps you please let me know if i can shed anymore light on this subject as i will be pleased to help you. I'm speaking as an ex-sufferer and a registered nurse and i'm now training to become a PNI counsellor (i'm studing for an MA in counselling) to help women as the waiting list for NHS Psychotherapy/counselling is just too long. Best wishes and love Deborah x
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rosie
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by rosie on Feb 10, 2004 7:59:27 GMT
dear deborah thank you so much for your kind words they really help I am seeing a physiciatrist i think i have spelt that wrong! on the 10th of march so i can make sure i am on the correct dose - i have had to pay for this myself as i have been via the mental health nurse twice which took 4 months and they said i was not depressed as was very coherrant confident and outgoing and showed no systems of depression - i think i was supposed to look unkempt and sit stareing vacantly in to space for them to take me seriousley! They said i looked really well and was just suffering from stress and the thoughts were normal but exaggerated and would go away. I feel very let down by the health service and fianlly the Dr agreed to refer me privately as i think unless you are very ill and seen as a threat to your baby or yourself they let you get on with it. I dont care what it costs i just want to get well. On the outside i seem fine and no one would know i have a problem - i am very sucessfull at my work and although part time i am top salesperson at work, i suppose that is good for my confidence levels. I think what you say about over vigilence is spot on i love my little girl so much i would never do anything to hurt her - i am dealing with my thoughts as i just say to myself they are silly and dont mean anything and carry on with what i am doing but i just wish they would go away. Hopefullly after my appointment they will up the dose - the Dr wants to keep them the same for the present, at least i have hasd no side effects this is the fourth type i have tried as i was so ill on prozac waking up at 4 with really racing thoughts and continually vomiting for 3 weeks.You would not believe the different theings i have tried - i have seen 3 counsellors 1physchologist and a hypnotherapist! thaks again rosie
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Lainey
Full member
First time mum to Rebecca who is 21 months. Suffered PNI for a year and a half - now recovered
Posts: 108
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Post by Lainey on Feb 10, 2004 10:41:10 GMT
Hi Rosie and Deborah
I totally know what you mean Rosie when you say it just suddenly comes into your head to do something stupid, you could be quite happy chatting to a friend or just mooching about when wham it pops into your head.
My friend who has had PND after each of her four children said exactly the same as you Deborah regarding being over vigilant and protective about your baby. All the horrible things you think about are mostly to do with a danger to your child - it took me a long time to understand and appreciate this but I now realise I am a bad mother, just a mother who loves her child and wants to protect her.
I am nearly over this illness but I do still get the weird thoughts from time to time especially around my period when it can get quite bad again. I am just so glad for this website and all the wonderful girls who are willing to share their thoughts and feelings - it really does help knowing we are not alone and are just suffering from a pig of an illness.
With best wishes
Elaine xx
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Post by deborah on Feb 10, 2004 16:30:15 GMT
Thanks Rosie, i think the reason you have seen so many helathcare professionals is because there is no-one who is fully trained about PNI. I've found from my research that even those who consider themselves as experts in the field still don't have a clue about how awful this is. There is a doctor called Margaret Oakes who has written extensively about PNI. She has an Mum & Baby Unit in Nottingham and is head of the psychiatrists PNI ''forum''. Slowly she is trying to get a specialist 'perinatal mental health' doctor in every county so that women get the help they need. When i give talks to Health Visitors/GP's i always say you can tell who is feeling worst of all - it's the mum who has her make-up on and is dressed very well. I tell them we mums wear a thin veneer of control but anyone who knows enough about this illness who asks the right questions will quickly see this veneer slowly come off. So console yourself with the fact that its not you its the NHS for failing to provide for your needs. Even CPN's are usually 'general' they deal with all kinds of situations from alcohol abuse to chronic schizophrenia and they are 'given' PNI cases to deal with because of the recommendations of the National Service framework (NSF) mental health -Women's section. The CPN's are there not to treat you but to prevent your suicide ( not that yopu are that way but it is the Hospital Trust covering themselves just in case you do.) That's why you need to see someone who is trained in this field. Sorry i didn't mean to sound like i was on my soapbox! It just makes me so upset to hear how women are being treated. There was a study by MIND who estimated people paying for there own care costs the 'patients' millions of pounds and saves the NHS as well.
My advice to you if you have the time is to read all you can about your illness so as you are 'empowered'. If you are still working try and get time off for a while to rest and recover. When your venlafaxine is increased wait at least 2-3 weeks until it takes effect as then you will know how you are being affected by the bizarre thoughts. When the right dose is reached they should stop. UNLESS, you have a 'stress' in your life like eg a bereavment or something when you may get a 'breakthrough' of thoughts and when the stress has gone or lessened to some degree the voices will go again.
Try and keep a disry of when they come into your head. See if there is anything which triggers it, say tiredness, and slow down and try to rest, feet up and read or look at a magazine. My e-mail address if you ever want to get in touch is djmg@btopenworld.com I was on venlafaxine for 2 and a 1/2 years, maximum dose of 350 mgs. I had alot of side effects mainly sweating profusley (just like after having a baby, behind the knees and back of the neck) . It can make you feel 'neutral' you don't get the thoughts or tearfulness but you feel just that 'neutral.' It is a very good drug and not one which is dished out all of the time. It will work so persevere. Any other issues you are concerned about if i can help in any way please get in touch. Take care and lots of love, you will get better, this is thankfully temporary, it may take time to heal but you will.Don't let anyone burden you or pile thinfgs on you take it easy and rest as much as you can. Get family to help you out if possible. love Deborah xx
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rosie
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by rosie on Feb 11, 2004 8:55:26 GMT
thank you so much elaine and deborah for your support it really helps knowing other women have been in the same place as me and got over it because at times i feel i will always be like this and i just want to get well. I have tried to tell my doctor when he talks about suicidal thoughts thats its not that i dont want to be here because i very much do its just that i dont want to feel like this - anyway i will get through this - we all will. once again thank god for this site
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Post by Dana on Feb 11, 2004 14:57:03 GMT
Dear Rosie,
The best thing you're doing is going to see someone privately. I so agree with what the others wrote - practitioners by enlarge haven't got a clue about PNI, is is a field which is very largely unresearched and full of misconceptions. Things did not move for me until I sought help privately. I was diagnosed and treated first at the perinatal clinic at the Maudesely hospital which is supposed to be one of the best places in the country and I found the staff there unhelpful, judgemental and unsupportive. And actually, quite ignorant about their so called 'field of expertise'. I was moved around from one psychiatric community team to another and to cut a long story short it was a bloody mess. I also had terrible thoughts - mostly about wanting a car to hit me in the street so that someone else would have to take care of my baby. Like you, I was perceived to eb a very strong personality - coherent, confident, outgoing etc. But just because you can express yourself and are aware does not mean you are not suffering inside! Take heart from the wonderful responses you got here, and trust your instincts. Some Psychiatrists can also recommend a good psychotherapist who can help you throughout the illness to compliment the medication, which I found was well worth doing.
Good luck with everything and lots of love, Danax
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rosie
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by rosie on Feb 11, 2004 21:35:07 GMT
thanks dana for your advice i wish i had gone for help privately before this but i suppose i trusted the health service and thought it was the best route to go down - how wrong! I even tried homeopathy for a while who are very anti anti-depressants and told me i should come off them at once as they make you worse - i tried that for 4 months to no avail. When i think of all the other things i tried such as hypnotherapy accupuncture seeing a healer and even a clairvoyant!(i thought if i knew how long i had to last this thing out i could cope!!) it makes me realise how let down i have felt that i have gone to such extremes of crazy behaviour! I think my husband thought i had lost the plot but now he understands a bit more after reading this site the pain i have been going through. I would like to know peoples thoughts on counselling as i was going on my own to see one and he recommended that my husband came along as he felt the problems lay with both of us and that he could not take things any further with me on my own. Can Pnd be sometimes caused by relationship problems or is it purely a hormone inbalance? thanks to you all once again. Rosie
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Post by deborah on Feb 12, 2004 11:39:49 GMT
Hi Rosie its deborah again, PND in itself doesn't cause relationship problems, but being ill and a partner not understanding can.Also the change in your relationship with having more children or one child even as i feel the emotional and psychological aspects of pregnancy, birth and postnatally doesn't have enough attention paid to its effects.
A good counsellor/psychotherapist is worth seeing if they have some idea about PNI. Even if they don't (as in my psychotherapist) they can takre you through issues which are causing you distress and sort them out. I would go back to your GP or a new GP and get a referral to a specialist psychotherapist (one who works in a psych mum & baby unit is ideal) and take it from there. Deborah xx
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rosie
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by rosie on Feb 12, 2004 12:35:26 GMT
hi deborah thanks for the advice i have found it impossible to find any counsellor trained in pnd i have been via my doctor my mental health worker who told me they are not allowed to make refferals! yellow pages you name it i am hoping when i see the psychiatrist he can recommend someone - it all gets so costly though. Even my health worker said i was not ill enough for her pnd group as they all suffer from ongoing extreme mental health problems - abuse as children, schitzophrenia etc and she said it would make me worse going to that. I live in Norwich Norfolk and there seems to be a major lack of support networks here.
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Post by Dana on Feb 12, 2004 18:43:16 GMT
Hi Rosie,
a quick one as the baby's screaming for attention - get in touch with the the national association of Psychotherapists - you can get their number from your GP - they can refer you to a psychotherapist who specialises in this area. I also found it very difficult to find anyone who specialises in PND, but I did a lot of research and found someone. the only problem is she practises in London...However, you should be able to fins someone - even if that is not their field of expertise, there might be therapists who have an interest or inclination towards this field. it might take a bit of work but it's worth it.
Personally I think PND is something that definitely affects your partner, but you should get therapy for on your own, so I wouldn't necessarily think you should get counselling with your husband. But that is obviously my own opinion and these things are so personal!!!
If you need any more tips on how to find a therapist get back to me on this site. I know that when I was seeking help I nearly went mad with frustration!!! Another place whichy ou might consider calling is The Tavistock Clinic in London. Ask to speak to someone in the family unit - they used to run a group therapy for PND, they can direct you to someone in your area.
XXXXXXXXDana
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