Stepford wives/mums!

[Tina]

Yesterday I went to a one year old birthday party. I hardly know the child and his mum, we had meet through baby group. I though it would be nice to take my son so we went. It was nice but! The children played and the mums and mums to be chated. Birth stories as per usual. No one discussed what could or did go wrong. It was all very postive if not very real. There was the token I had my baby in two hour with no pain releif mum. The I refused pain relief during my two days of labour and want another baby straight away. The stories went on. No one discussed their feelings. One passed some comment about baby bonding, I openly said I had had real problems bonding with my son and that I had PND.

Honestly the look of horror on their faces shocked me. Did these women really have no feelings. Had none of them even had the baby blues? They totally irgnored me and contiued with the polite but unreal chat.

Things will never change if mum's react like this. These women were so programmed by NCT and Discovery Health that they were living idealistic false dream. Where everything was perfect and feeling did not matter.

Maybe I was in the perfect mum's club and I had got in by accident. Maybe my experiences are wrong or maybe I honest and not hiding behind some ideal!

I am real, I not ashamed of have PNI. I am happy to shout it at the top of my voice. I did not want or expect anything at the party but the one thing that they were not prepared to give a frank and honest discussion on the real issue of child birth. Feelings warts and all!

Tina

[AC]

Hi Tina,

I wish i could be like you and have no shame about having PNI,but i am the complete opposite,i am totally ashamed,embarrased and feel like a failure...a failure to myself,my family and most of all a failure to my son.

I wish that i could be the ' perfect ' mum,but i know i am far from it,i do try my best,but still feel so inadequate compared to some of the mums i meet.

I find it hard to go anywhere on my own,and could not walk in to a baby group on my own without having a friend to hide behind, The thought terrifies me, i know that a lot of my feelings are down to the PNI,as i used to be able to cope in most situations.

I think you are very brave to have gone to a birthday party with your son,especially as you dont know the person very well.I just wouldnt have been able to do it.

[tina]

Hi ALison,

I not a prefect mum and would not want to be. I am me, doing the best I can. I have not always felt like this, last year I thought I was terrible, a total waste of space. I thought of giving my son up for adoption. To let him have the chance of having two paretns that loved him. Not just a dad and me!

I don't know exactly when and how it changed but I thank God it did. I have thought I was getting over PNI on many occassions and each time it's come back to bite me again. But each time it's not been so hard to get back in control. The negative thoughs are so hard and the weird thoughts scared me. But they are fading... like the birth.

I did not wake up one morning feeling better but slowly I stopped doubting myself. I accept the way I was, my feeling warts and all. I am not good at being a stay at home mum, but I have no choice for now. My life is not over but just begining.

I still doubt myself sometimes and think that's quite 'normal'. At the moment my son as nappy rash so bad it's bleeding. This is the first time it's happened. My mum has given me hell about it, but it's not my fault and I am trying everything to get rid of it. In the past I would have cried for hours about this but now I just trying to work through it.

My little man's away must go. It will get bettter.1

Tina xx

[Veritee]

Oh Tina

I have certainly been there!

I went to a mother and baby group which then turned into a toddler group and then we all progressed to the playgroup together. With exactly 3 notable exceptions, - and it was not straight away, only over time even that these three started to be 'real' with me - this is how it all felt for me at these groups and not just once but 4 times a week, the number of times I attended with my daughter.

I did get to know another mother later so that makes 4 out of 20 who were not stepford wives!!

I will say that for a very small number this was their reality to some extent. That they really enjoyed being a mother and everything about caring for their children and had never had hardly a minute’s negativity and just did not understand what I was going through at all.

This is true for some, but certainly not for the majority, and if the statistics of 1 in 10 to 1 in 15 suffer PNI and this only the number diagnosed, even in my very small playgroup of 15 to 20 there must have been at least one other.

Anyway, even if you do not have PNI, having and bringing up children can never be that rosy - can it???

If there were one or more other with PNI, they never told me!*!

Even the 3 women that proved in the end to be 'mostly human' and have human failings, doubts and concerns, did not or did not admit or did not know they had PNI.

Actually I still know them all well now - they are my friends so I know while they were, as all parents do finding things difficult at times and struggled from time to time as we all do. As they are still now our children are hitting 15 and have teenage concerns and difficulties, but they did not actually have PNI.

The one or two with PNI in my baby, toddler and playgroup was not one of the women who were able a little to be honest about their difficulties adjusting to parenthood and the difficulties of caring for young children.

The ones like me who had PNI would have been one of those coping smiling, fulfilled and happy mothers!!!!

It is often called the smiling illness because women are so ashamed they go to great length to hide it, to the extent of looking like they are really enjoying being a mother.

I know why they do it but like you I can see that this is the worse thing in the long run anyone can do to help PNI get recognized, treated and understood both for them and other women.
However I know how hard it is to 'come out' about PNI.

I am not however criticizing those who just can not be honest. It is very difficult and the last thing you want when you have PNI is to feel rejected by a group as I was, and feel other women do not like you or support you as you need all the friends you can get.

But if you are able to be open about PNI you will be helping someone else – so keep doing it.

The reason I think I was always so open about it was because mainly because of my age - being about 40 when I first hit toddler group - and my background of working with people and dealing with difficult social/personal issues such as abuse, homelessness,, relationships etc mental illness, in my work as a youth worker.

It never occurred to me to hide the fact I had PNI and that I was not enjoying motherhood.

It therefore came as a great shock the other women’s reaction to this disclosure.

At these groups I had to endure being ignored at best, and once even being asked to leave when I became upset in one of the groups. They said it was not good for their babies/children to see a mother upset like this. (I will admit that I think I swore sometimes as I was so upset - but even still I was shocked at being asked to leave!)

I tried but could not help how I felt creeping out and at times I would innocently join in the conversations about being a mother and say something about how I felt and be completely ignored for the rest of the session.

Anyway the funny thing is that many of these women are still in the area and now 15 years older and no longer have an investment in appearing to be the perfect mother.

So many times women from these groups have said how much they admired me for being able to say what I did and be honest about how I felt about being a mum and the difficulties.
They have said they could not admit it at the time but what I said helped them not to despair and feel like they were the only one feeling like this.

I am grateful that I have now been able to realize that I certainly was not alone it was just these women were just not confident to share the negative stuff they felt about being mothers and caring for young children.

However it made me feel very very alone at the time and very unsupported, that they were scared to share and at times scared even to associated with me in case others thought they were the same as me.

When women do this to each other they really do each other and themselves a disfavor.

I guess all we can do - the ones who have 'come out' is to understand for others it just is not possible yet for them to be open about PNI ( or even women without PNI to be open about the fact motherhood is not a bed of roses)and to keep talking about it with the knowledge that just because women do not openly support what you say within any group there is at least one who knows only to well what you are talking about and by being open you may be helping some one else.

Keep up the good work Tina

All the best

Veritee

[Jane]

Tina, I really identify with you on this one. It's the reason why I avoided the mum and baby groups and now the toddler groups.

When I hear mums say that they bonded with their babies immediately, loved breast feeding etc, it makes me feel like a total freak.

But I remember that I used to do it too - sorry!! I would say things like 'Giving birth was exhausting but as soon as I saw him I forgot about all the pain' - not true. I think I did it because I sensed that people would reject me if I didn't appear to be the perfect mum.

I'm sure that most mums do find having a baby to be the most rewarding experience of thier lives, but I think it is totally unrealisitic when mums make it out to be a bowl of cherries.

Love Jane

[Calmer]

Hi
My antenatal group is much the same - there are only two girls, who have both openly admitted to struggleing, whom i can talk to. The other are these outwardly perfect mums - but i tell myself that they too have their moments like everyone else.

They did used to talk about feeding problems etc, but it always seemed superficial to me.

They are all nice girls and I still see them occasionally, but I do find that when im feeling bad i avoid them.

I honestly think that people who have had no contact with PNI cant really understand it - but good for you for telling them - if there is someone else who is suffering, your being so open may make them feel more able to talk about it! People tend to follow other peoples example.

Love C x

[sutherjess]

Hi,

It is easy to feel detached when in a room full of 'perfect' mums. I tried mother and baby groups when David was little but always left because I felt I didn't 'mix' (and I didn't even have pni with David).

It's only now that David is at nursery full time and I have to spend dropping off and picking up times with other mums that I feel I belong. Through listening to chatter I have heard of 2 other mums who have had serious pni (they both want to be sterilised rather than risk going through it again). I have a good friend who is on anti-depressants because of the stress of 2 older sons and a 3 year old girl.

The more I listen and try to chat, the more I learn that I am a 'normal' mum and these people who live in fairy land and pretend that parenting is a breeze are kidding themselves.

I know pni affects everyone but I'm wondering whether people of a higher class are less willing to admit problems.

jessica

[Tina]

Thanks for the replies.

Like Vertiy, I guess becuase I am older (I had my son just before my 43 birthday) It never dawned on me that I should hide my PNI from anyone. I had been through infertility treatment and had been very open about that also. I guess the reason for that is that good friends of ours went through the same thing but told hardly anyone not even her mother. They had a terrible time and were always being asked when they were going to start a family. It was through witnessing their pain that I knew I would need the support of everyone to get through the treatment.

So when I was told I had PND the most obvious course of action was to tell anyone who asked. I did not hide it or flaunt it but letting people know explained my behaviour. I got a lot of support. The only one who has failed to give me any real support is my sister who has enjoyed the whole thing. But that's a whole other issue.

I am very lucky through my support group I have really good friends. They talk to me and I talk to them. It's my life saver!
I have told them things I have never told my mother!

I am not always open and I have kept one big secret from most of my friends and all of my family. I not sure if that is through shame or what. I have told the group and in telling them I felt a weight lift from my shoulders. When I was 22 years old I was raped. What they now call a date rape. I am sure some of the trauma of that has impacted on the PNI. Now finally some 22 years later I am coming to terms with it and truely putting it in the past. So I can understand why some women can't face admitting that they have or have had PNI. It's not easy. I wonder if I was raped now I would admit it?

Today while shopping I bumped into a girl I know who is just twelve weeks pregnant. SHe told me some of her fears about being a mother. It was like a bell ringing in my ear. She was struggling before the baby has arrived.(How I remember that) I said to her that it was hard coping with what was happening inside her belly let alone coming to terms with what was going on in her head. She looked and smiled I know that smile it that one when you finally realize that your not alone some one else has been there!

I am glad that I can tell people about my PNI and hope that through enlightenment of the public as a whole we can remove the stigma and get the support that we all need.

At present I have a new quest to get the Mother to be groups to be more open about PNI. I want Midwives and Health vistors to educate in adavance not mop up after. I am trying to get our local Sure Start to include more about it in their Bumps and Babies groups. I feel that at the present the medical profession do not have a programme of prevention and they are weak at identifying PNI. If they actively worked towards educating society as whole they would not eradicate it but they would alleviate some of the problems. What do other mums thinks?

[Annie]

Hi Tina!
I absolutely agree with you. This is my third baby and yet I had no real idea of what having PNI was until it hit me. In fact I am pretty angry as I feel had someone warned me it could happen after a third child then I would have been better prepared and more likely to face up to it and recognise the symptoms earlier than I did. I naively(spelt right??) thought PND (as that what everyone called it) was simply being down after the birth and not bonding with your baby. I had no idea about the range of horrible symptoms of this illness!Let's form a pressure group!!

Annie xx

[Veritee]

Tina

Join me!

I have a chance at some real funding if I really get my finger out - something called Section 64 funding and I have to somehow formulate the site into a charity and apply for this funding by the 13th August 2004.

One of the things I want to apply for funds to do is exactly what you said !

‘At present I have a new quest to get the Mother to be groups to be more open about PNI. I want Midwives and Health visitors to educate in advance not mop up after.'

I would like to get the funds to pay at least the expenses but hopefully an hourly or sessional rate for recovered or even suffering women to go round playgroups, pre natal groups, talk to heath visitors etc to do just what you said above - I would like to start with Cornwall as this is where I am and I could really do with some other women from Cornwall to help me with this.

Do you want to think about it? and let me know? It would be a big task and I am not at all sure it would succeed, but I would like to try.

I think that we would be stronger if we got together than if we tried it alone!

Perhaps we could meet up and talk about it?

All the best

Veritee

[yorkslass]

HI Veritee

This is the kind of thing I want to do when I am well to go to groups and let mums to be get used to the idea it may happen to them and let them know there is support there for them. I am open and i dont mind telling people I have PND.

Please let me know how you get on doing this as I am very interested in doing somthing in this area obviously when I am well enough.

For the past couple of years I have been on a committee to rebuild our local village hall that burnt to the ground and as we want to build a larger and better hall we have had to go into a lot of funding which that part i was not invoved a lot in but we are including a lot of rooms and I will have use of them and I am hoping that by the time the hall is ready I will be more able to do somthing special towards promoting PND (if that is the right way of saying this) i.e getting health visitors and midwives to come and talk to our local mums and baby groups put posters up also try to get a support group and maybe other things which are approprate, I just hope that I will be strong enough to do this. I am determind to do somthing to help other future suffers in one way or another.

Mel

[AC]

Dear Tina,

I totally agree with you,i thought motherhood would be brilliant,that my life would just be the same but with a baby.

I had read all the baby magazines and watched all the baby programmes while pregnant,and i can honestly say that at no point was there any discussion of PNI.

Maybe this is because they dont want to scare expectant mothers,but thinking back now,maybe if i had known more about this awful condition then i would have felt more reassured.

Being a mum is really not what its cracked up to be,not for PNI sufferers anyway.I like you wish that the stigma wasnt attached and that it wasnt such a hush hush subject,i am partly to blame i guess as i dont let people know that i have it,so i suppose i am contributing to the stigma.

maybe this is something we can discuss at our group,and i think you definately should consider joining Veritee to make something happen...Im sure between the two of you,someone will listen !!!

[deborah]

Hi Tina,

I agree with you on this. I am so fed up with the attitudes of HV's and Midwives on this and persuading them to change or even listen is so hard.

They see it (some of them) as some kind of 'personal issue' which only they can deal with.

Setting up a pressure group is good but communication between groups is the first step.
There are some which are not HV or CPN led (women led ones which are the best)
I am currently liasing with in order to get an umbrella organisation (veritee and i have discussed this at length) going so we can ALL keep the pressure on the various organisations to make life easier for women with PNI.
Tina would you liase with me about your group??I know we had an e-mail or two in the beginning when you set up but what do you think about being part of the ''umbrella'' organisation?

There is a woman in Salford who has done the same thing for the past 7 years now called Julie Wakerley. She has tirelessly fought in her area for PNI to be recognised by HV's and midwives/CPN's etc. She has had a battle on her hands . Although she has studied as a trained counsellor she still gets a 'rough' deal from HV's who tell her it none of her business to 'interfere' in PNI issues!!
I too am getting this from one in my area who wants us 'shut down'!!! Hard to believe isn't it??

Getting us all together is the first part of it all we could all meet up somewhere and discuss it?? Anyone up for that??!!
A grand PNI meeting theres a thought....
Love
Deborah XXxxXX

[yorkslass]

HI


Just thought I would chip in and say to you all.

Every one of your ideas are fantastic.

Melx

[sutherjess]

Hi all,

I have just read this thread and find it very interesting. Pni is a world wide problem but it seems to be ignored or swept under the carpet.

After the treatment I have received from so called professionals I am so angry at how women are treated as aliens when they suffer this illness.

It was only today that I read a story in a womens magazine about a woman in america who drowned her five children in the bath. She was suffering psychosis after the birth of her daughter. She certainly had the support of her family, she wasn't left alone for long with the kids. However the doctor had taken her off of medication 2 weeks before the incident because he thought she was better. She is now rotting in prison, not receiving the help she so obviously needed before. She doesn't even remember what happened to her kids.

It makes me sick to think that five innocent children aged between 7 years and 6 months suffered a horrid death. It makes me even more sick to know that this woman needed help and these children were let down by the doctors.

Her family is campaigning for all new mums to be advised about pni and psychosis.

Jessica