Wife is Suffering.

[natalie1985]

Hi Raphael,
Sorry i must of went past your post, i didn't see your first post.
I'm so sorry for what you and your wife are goign through.
PND is a horrible ilness and unfortunately can change your whole personality.
The day it hit me was after i had a fight with my fiance, he text me saying "i wasn't the same woman he fell in love with"....it just killed me hearing that. Then i thought to myself i don't feel like the Natalie i was, thats when i got help.
I got better with my medication, so just try and hang in there! I know its very difficult, but always remember she won't be like this forever! It will go away.
Maybe you should go talk to someone about how you're feeling. Maybe see your gp for some support, or a counsellor. Or even just continue chatting to us on here.
We're here to listen and help as much as we can.
I'm glad to hear you told your wife you still love her. I'm sure that would of meant alot to her.
Please take care.
Natalie

[angel]

Hi Raphael
I just wanted to try and reassure you i too had an affair when i was struggling with PNI it isn't something that i'm proud of and i have to say that i'm really lucky as my husband did forgive me and we now have another child. But what i want to try and explain is how it was for me it might not be the same for your wife, but for me it was like i was a completely different person i'm not normally the tyoe of person that would do something like that. PNI affects us all in different ways and if that is what you believe then i really think you can put it behind you i'm so glad that you told your wife that you still love he and that she said she was sorry for hurting you. If you can put it behind you and move on i'm sure you will be helping her with her recovery. Just try to be there and support her as much as you can as long as that is what she wants.

[Raphael]

:-/Thank you Natalie and Angel for your kind words of support. Sarah has gone back to stay with her parents again today. At this very moment in time my heart is breaking and i feel like I'm falling apart. I keep wanting to cry all the time. I listen to the lyrics of songs on the radio and each sad song tells our story in some way. I know it's not a very male thing to admit but being the strong one and a constant punch bag is taking it's toll. I spoke to Sarah this morning on the phone and she says she wants to talk to me later and that our son is missing me .

I went out last night for the first time in ages to see a gig . Everyone was so happy and the music was uplifting . I bumped into a friend who i had lost touch with and he told me that his wife had had pnd with both of his children (boys aged 2 and 4). His advice was to hang in there and that she will get better as i do believe but i 'm not sure that she knows what she wants anymore. Another friend last night told me that i should face facts and realize that perhaps our relationship had come to a natural end and that it was time to move on and look after myself and my son. We both come from similar backgrounds in as far as we were abandoned by our fathers at 2 years old and have had hardly any contact since . This is not what i want for my son , i just wanted a happy family life together and my son to be with his mum and dad together in our home. Life is so cruel and this pnd is robbing our little family of our future. I have always been sure until now that things can get better.

Angel, how did your husband cope with your affair and how long was it before you fully recovered?

Thanks to everyone and i hope i have a happy ending story to tell you some day soon..
back to work now

[angel]

Hi Raphael

I guess i don't really know how my husband coped with my affair as we don't really talk about it anymore it happened three years ago now. But at the time he didn't cope very well and it did take us a long time to put things right but i know that I'm really lucky as my husband thinks that marriage is worth fighting for and I'm so glad that he does feel like that as our marriage is stronger now than ever. To start with we was very suspicious of everything that i did and i wanted to say something about that but because it was something i had made him feel i had to put up with it. Now things are fine like i said its not something we talk about any more but sometimes its still there in my head especially when i had my little girl in march but at least this time we did talk about. As for how long it took me to recover its really hard to say my little boy is nearly four and i think that i wasn't fully recovered from PNI when i had my little girl this year but i can now say that i do feel as if I'm in recovery now i guess i felt like that the first time round but this time its a lot different i am much happier now and it so helps having this forum around to chat to people if i need to as they always understand how i am feeling. If you can it might be worth getting your partner to talk on here i would be happy to tell her how things were for me but obviously if she doesn't want to you can't force her. I also wanted to say that what i have written is just how things were for me and everyone is different but i hope what i have said helps.

[Raphael]

:(Dear Angel,
Thanks for replying . I realize everyones experience of this terrible illness is different but there seems to be patterns of behavior that our common between alot of women. So in a way it is comforting to know that there are other people out there suffering but i get the impression that the majority suffer in silence as it seems that any form of mental illness is a big taboo subject and i guess if people haven't experienced it themselves or lived with someone who has are afraid of the unknown.
i would like my wife to communicate with you and others on this site but she doesn't want to take any advice from me and if i suggest it it will probably be wrong. I did however tell her that i had been on a pnd website but she didn't react. I can't seem to communicate on any level with her. As each day goes by now I'm becoming more disheartened and not seeing my son as well is extremely hard.

Did you ask your husband to move out and then tell him you didn't love him?

I'm very pleased that you and your husband managed to get through the pnd and have another child . Glad it's all working out for you and that you feel you can share your experience with others. Thanks again angel.

[angel]

what i did to my husband was much worse than that I'm afraid and I'm really not proud if it but i run off with the other man taking my son with me. I left in the middle of the night as my husband at the time was working nights. I came back about three days later and stayed at my mums for a while i think that is one of the reasons that I'm so lucky he took me back. When i look back at what i was doing a can't believe i actually did it, it was like i was a different person and not me at all.
I know what you mean about people suffering in silence i think for me i was frightened that people would think i was a failure i mean in my head i was a failure as not only had a put my husband who i loved very very much through what i did i also dragged my one year old through it as well and too me that made me a bad mum. I know now that I'm not a bad mum but i do still worry that all the arguments and stuff will have left some impression on my little boy but it doesn't appear to have. I think the bast thing you can do for your wife is to let her know that you are still there for her and want to work things out but please only tell her this if you really mean it what i mean is if you do sort things out and i really hope that you do please don't throw her affair back in her face in any arguments later on. I know it must be hard but the only way forward is to put the affair behind you.

[Raphael]

:(hi Angel,
thanks for your reply. Things seemed to have got worse since my last posting . My wife doesn't seem to want me in her life anymore and has become even more cold and distant . I of course can see she is still suffering and i was intending to tell her today that I'm still here for her and i do mean. I have my son today for a few hours and i don't know if I'll see him until next weekend. I know she is finding it hard to cope with him, even though she is living at her parents. I seem to have been ostracized by her family because they don't want to speak to me about the situation. The worst thing is i tried to call her about 5 times on Friday night and good get no reply. I later found out that her parents were baby sitting while she drove 45 min each way round trip to see her "friend" she said nothing happened between them but why are they still contacting each other all the time. I think she still plans to run off with him but she denies it. It is very difficult to communicate with her as every time we meet it' s at her parents , and i always end up getting frustrated that she won't communicate or if she does it is negative.

It looks like i will have to accept that she does not want to be with me after 12 years together(5 years married) and try and get on with life but that is the bitterest pill to swallow.
I can i think put this "fling" as she calls it behind us but there is nothing left of the old Sarah and at the moment we seem like strangers with no history.

I know there is nothing that anyone can say to make things right again but thank you for trying.

[angel]

i'm so sorry that things aren't working out for you i still think its important for your wife to know that you are there to support her maybe if you wrote things down in a letter then she could read it when she is ready don't give up on her. Its important that you make the most of the time with your son and try not to let the was things are with your wife get in the way of that. Maybe it is best to give her some space to work things out for herself and if you are really meant to be together things will work out. But i really think its worth writing things down for her to read its somethings easier to be honest in a letter rather than face to face.

[Raphael]

:(Dear Angel,
thanks for the advice. We had a talk this afternoon when i took our son back to her. I told her i was there for her . She still thinks we should separate "non formally" as she puts it . Basically she wants me to move out of our house so she can move back in with our son but i have refused so she is staying at her Parents. The situation is getting worse but there is nothing more i can do.
I just have to keep going for our son.
I'm going to give her space and as you say see what is meant to be.
Thanks again for the advice.

[angel]

hi i just wanted to find out how things are going have you managed to speak to your wife. it must be quite hard for her being at her parents with your little boy, i know it was for me would she not move back into the house if you slept maybe in a spare room as at least then your son would be in his own environment. Also then maybe you may have a chance to really talk i think you need to find out exactly what she wants and you need to think what you actually want. I really hope that this situation works out for you but no matter what happens just remember that you have a beautiful innocent little boy in all of this please don't let him pick up on any of the bad feelings between you and your wife.

[raphael]

??? :'(Dear Angel,

Things are still bad. My wife did however call me today to say that she had changed her mind about me having our son for the weekend, so i'm looking forward to being with him but i'm obviously deeply saddened that we are not together.
I,ve had a very strange day today!

I was waiting for someone in the street today when i recognised the man my wife had her fling with walked past me into a cafe. I followed him , my heart was pounding ,and i didn't know what to say but i knew i had to confront him. I asked him if his affair with my wife was over . He swore on his children's life that it was . As i'm sur you can imagine it was a very tense meeting ,but i'm glad to have been able to speak to him face to face ; he did apologise for what he had done but unfortunately the damage runs deep now and although i can forgive forgetting is the hard part.

I also went to see a counselor from relate tonight. I had to fight back the tears on several occassions, but although it was quite therapeautic, the counsellor concluded my telling that my marriage was over! which was hard to take and not what i expected.

I haven't written off our relationship yet but things our out of my control and i can't make her love me.

I would never ever want our son to be affected my this having come from a childhood where my father deserted my mother and my brother when i was 2 years old and i know children that young can remember things as i remeber very clearly the day my father left and what my mother said to us.

Life goes on .... I've been told by my wife's health visitor to look after myself for ousr son's sake so that's what i'm going to try and do.

Thanks again for your concern , i will keep you updated.

[natalie1985]

Hi Raphael!
Your situation has brung tears to my eyes.
I haven't got much advice as i've never been in your position.
All i can do is offer my support and some wise words:

When you're in your darkest hour,
And all of the light just fades away.
When your like a single flower,
Who's colours have turned to shades of gray.
Well hang on...
be strong

It's a chorus from my favourtie songs! I find when i'm having a tough time, this song really lifts me up and helps me to "be strong".
You can relate the words to any situation, so it can help you get through your bad times!

Take care!

Natalie

[raphael]

:Hi Natalie,
Thanks for your support. I have been on the verge of tears all day struggling to hold on to my composure while doing my job. I haven't quite got over the blunt verdict of the relate counselor.

I picked up our son this evening and managed to talk to my wife on a reasonably friendly basis only to be told that she had been to see a solicitor today under the advice of her mother. She still doesn't know what she wants but she now says she still loves me. I don't know where i am with her at the moment. She wants to stay with her parents but i and all the other health professionals don't think she is going to get better by living there. I am still willing to give our relationship (which has been destroyed by her illness) the effort it may take to survive .

My in-laws seem determined to destroy my wife's ability to think and decide for herself and don't seem to have any regard for our future happiness and the happiness of our Son. I bear them no malice but i have to make a big life changing decision soon of whether to give up on my marriage and concentrate on taking care of myself and our son or to keep being the punch bag of my wife's unstable mental state and being the recipient of some bizarre hate campaign from her parents.

I'm going to try and make the best of the weekend and my time with my son. I am hanging on but my grip is loosening and my resolve is weary.

Thanks again for your support.....

[Veritee]

Dear Raphael

I have not replied to you before but I have been following your story.

I was quite concerned when you said that the relate counsellor had ' concluded my telling that my marriage was over!

As this would be unusual as it is not usually a counsellors remit to decide when a relationship is over - but only to help you to decide and accept

- I would have thought a relate counsoler would not give and opinion, but just feed back to you what you'd said in the session ie the situation as you presented it - and offer an interpretation?

I do think that it shows commitment that you have gone to a relate counsellor.

But anyway, I am not a counsellor but a woman who has suffered PNI and from what I have heard of your story so far I feel that you have no choice but to

‘concentrate on taking care of myself and our son '

But this does not mean that you have to completely give up on your marriage or be a

' punch bag of my wife's unstable mental state and being the recipient of some bizarre hate campaign from her parents'

What I mean is that you have to look after yourself first and foremost in order to be of any help to yourself or your son or your wife.

I do not know what the future holds but at this moment neither you or anyone else can make your wife come back to you and while I understand what you are saying when you say that your in - laws are influencing her

At the end of the day as a grown woman it is her decision -

and from what i have read she has not since the day she went into hospital wanted to commit herself to going back to you and in fact prior to being hospitalised she did not live with you for at least 2 months ?

and so when she had this affaire with this other patient she had effectively been separated / estranged from you for over 2 months?

- is this right??

If this is the case you really have no choice but to accept that for the time being at least she does not want to be with you, and get on with your own life and be there for your son for when you have access visits etc

This is the best you can do at this time for yourself, your son and your wife.

I accept that you will be angry with your in-laws as you see them as keeping her from you - but I really do think that if she actually wanted to be living with you right now, nothing your in-laws or anyone could do would keep her from going back to you!

She seems to have made her decision about this at least for the time being and this may have been what your counsellor was getting at?

I also strongly feel it is also going down an unproductive line to put all of the reasons for your break up on your wife’s PNI.

This is a bit like saying that she did not want to be with you because she was mad or ‘ not in her right mind’ and the ‘sane’ thing to do would be to go back to you - which is not a very respectful attitude to have about her if you wish to have a relationship with her in the future.

It is true that PNI does put relationships under a lot of strain - and about 1 in 15 of people who come to this forum for support do spit up while they have PNI with their partner...

But while I think PNIcan be a factor it would be wrong to blame it entirely.

And however much we are in an 'unstable mental state' when we have PNI it does not usually fundamentally alter who we love and trust and who we want to be with.

Well that’s my experience and form what I have heard form listening to others with PNI.

Over 14 years ago when I have PNI my husband and I came very close to splitting up ...

But I know for certain that while PNI put an extra strain on our relationship the problem was not PNI in itself .

What PNI did was show up the cracks, and these cracks were already there ....

And what we did was work very hard to mend them - but to do this both people have to want to do this - and wholeheartedly and ideally with no blame or reservations.... although I accept this is difficult but it is enough if both parties really try to achieve this .

Each relationship is different and each persons position is different....
We both had a lot to lose, emotionally and also financially if we split up and this is a factor too in staying together.

I do not know if your wife will eventually decide to come back to you -
She seems to be going nearer this way than before where you say

'She still doesn't know what she wants but she now says she still loves me'

but on the other hand she has been to see a solicitor??

so who knows what the future will bring?

What I do know is that if you were to get back together it would never work if you carried into it resentment of her parents role in all this - as she has obviously relied on them for support in what would have been a very difficult time given that she has been hospitalised and they are obviously very important to her at this time in her life.

I will say again that I doubt - no one , not even her parents could stop her coming home to you if that was what she was sure she wanted - sometimes we use other people as an excuse to hide behind because it feels safer.

I know that what I am saying will seem very harsh, but I really do think from following what you have said very closely that for now at least your only way forward for your own sanity is to accept your marriage is over at least for the time being, and concentrate on getting your own life in order - if you are feeling you are getting depressed as you have motioned

have you gone to your GP to see if you can get treatment for this?

Do you have any close friends you can rely upon for support – do you have a supportive work environment or is this a strain to at the moment?

Going to your relate counsellor seems a good move - but perhaps not to concentrate on finding blame and on the assumption you will get back together - but perhaps to come to some closure on what has happened

Perhaps you could put the PNI aside and look at your marriage itself , was there any issues that needed dealing with? was there anything that you could change for any relationships you may have in the future - including if you and your wife get back together as it would be best to treat it as a new start if you do.

I am sure I have not said what you wanted to hear - just as your Relate counsellor also did not say what you wanted to hear -

But in my opinion for what it is worth - you have to accept the situation as it is at least for now.

I can not see what else you can do??

And who knows if you are getting on with your life this may focus your wife to decide either way what she wants as I agree it would be unfair to keep you hanging on and put the responsibility on her parents for what ultimately has to be her decision as I am sure inside she does know ..

All this is just my opinion - this is all we can offer here.

All the best

Veritee

[raphael]

Dear Veritee,
Thank you for your frank and objective reply to my current situation.
I can see that the relate counselor was trying to get me to face the current reality of my situation and she did say at the end of our session that she thought i would benefit from future sessions to enable me to come to terms and deal with what has happened. I haven't decided to do this yet.

When my wife first went to stay with her parents in July she did towards the end of her 2 months suggest that we start dating again. I at the time did not understand this. Having been rejected and extremely hurt by her but realizing all the time that she was extremely ill i thought to myself "why do i have to start dating my own wife again when this depression of hers had consumed her and taken away any feelings she had for anything". So i didn't want to start dating as if to pretend that the whole reason for her illness was down to our relationship. We did however go out to dinner on several occasions , and on our anniversary in August. She seems to have decided she has to go back to how she was before we met . In as far as she started smoking again ( she smoked a little when we first met but gave up)and also living with her parents and being reliant on them.

There are a great number of factors involved in my wife's current mental state. None of us our perfect and i know That t i have probably misread situations in the pas t after our son was born and may-be i didn't/t comfort her always when she needed it. I.m not making excuses for myself but becoming a parent is stressful for men as well and after the birth i helped as much as i could by cooking and cleaning as well as going out to work. As most men will tell you during the first few weeks after the baby is born
the Father's role in looking after the baby itself is sidelined as the mother is usually breast feeding and added to this my wife was obsessive about anything to do with our son . She kept a detailed diary of when he slept ate and everything!.

I have always known my wife has this obsessive personality trait but it had never caused any major problems in the past and i just learned to live with it.

When my wife became ill she had had a period of little or no support from her mother due to the fact that my wife had dared to fight back when her mother criticized her for how she was looking after our son . This coincided with the time my mother who has always been close to my wife and (vice versa),had to go abroad for 4 weeks to care for her brother who was dying of lung cancer. Her mother also told my wife that she could not come to the christening she had spent ages planning which was the final straw undermined her confidence and left her in a depressed and vunerable state.Her relationship with her mother is a key factor in her depression which has been acknowledged by her psychiatrist.

There were definitely cracks in our relationship . My wife did not want to have sex after she became pregnant due to the fact that she had slight bleeding shortly after she conceived. As she had waited a long tim to become pregnant she did not want to jeopardize this ,which i understood and had to accept. She was however obsessively careful about ever thing during her pregnancy which was her in her character so i expected that. I think losing sexual intimacy in a relationship can be very damaging. After our son was born i myself didn't feel like becoming that intimate with my wife but i have read that this is quite normal for both partners but often happens to men.

There has been a great deal of damage done to our relationship but as my wife said yesterday12 years is a lot to just throe away. She will ultimately have to decide if she wants to live with me and for us to be a family with our son.

I do have friends for support as well as my family and i know i will get through this but i cannot at this present moment in time predict if my wife and i will still be together.

It has been very helpful writing things down on this forum and communicating with others.

Thank you Veritee for listening and being there for everyone .....