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Post by wendabell on Jan 11, 2005 21:51:52 GMT
hi ac, definatly not a loser at all. a good caring mum with a crap illness thats all.hope you sleep well hunny,night night.
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Post by wendabell on Jan 11, 2005 21:55:59 GMT
sorry about the 3 entrys i kept getting cut off and i thought it was not sent oops
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Post by AC on Jan 15, 2005 9:19:38 GMT
Dear All, Im slipping back again and its a horrible feeling. An incident happened in the week that has really upset me and although i am probably just being pathetic as normal,it is really bothering me. It has just made me doubt myself aswell as my few friends. The 'friends 'thing has always been a huge part of the illness for me,as i have lost so many good close friends through pushing them all away because of feeling so miserable and through losing all my self-esteem,and feeling as if i was a burden on them. I put my low mood down to a bit of PMT,but i am now over my period,and if anything feel worse.The tears are flowing now. I saw my CPN on Wednesday,and as normal we went over the same thing again,My avoidance of things etc.I feel as if she is really fed up with me now,and i dont blame her,i am fed up with myself also. We arranged for the creche to have my son for 3 hours on a friday every week,so that i can come home and have some 'ME' time,which at the time sounded great,but the more i have sat and thought about it,the more guilty i feel about leaving him and coming home. I also spoke to my CPN about how much i am struggling with my son at the moment,Not because he is naughty but because i find it hard keeping him entertained,I try my hardest to play with him,but i also find it very boring.If i sit on the floor and play cars with him,all the time i am thinking about other things i should be doing (Washing up,the laundry,hoovering,etc etc) He keeps himself entertained,and plays so lovely on his own,but i feel awful letting him play by himself. So thats about it really,my mind is absolutely buzzing,i went to bed lastnight feeling really ill,feeling sick,terrible migraine and feeling so anxious,i was struggling to breathe. Whats the answer ? I am getting tired of feeling this low,tearfull,guilty,and generally crap.I have had enough of everything
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Post by Veritee on Jan 15, 2005 10:23:53 GMT
Hi AC I am so sorry that you are feeling like this - and I have to say that from past discussions with you their are several similarities about how PNI affected us - I hope you do not mind me saying this? One of the things we share – and indeed in the same hospital – is a ‘bad /traumatic’ birth experience. Not to go on about my own experience but just to say why I think what happened to us was very similar I also had an emergency caesarean and a massive haemorrhage and was so ill I stayed in hospital 12 days. Alongside this was the fact that throughout my 36 hour agonising labour I knew something was horribly wrong, told the staff repeatedly in the end in tears and extreme distress only be told ‘not to be silly’, or at one point ‘we have other mothers than you we are very busy.’ It turned out that I was very right, Caja nearly died in fact her heart in the end stopped several times and I am lucky to have her. She was very ill in SCBU and I was not taken to see her for over 24 hours and was so confused I thought she was dead. I was hearing voices at this time and I think it was either because of how ill I was or the beginnings of PNI - I did have drips in but someone could have made the effort, when I finally asked - they said 'well if you had asked you could of gone anytime' but I was too scared to ask if she was alive and my husband had travelled back from aboard 18 hour flight to be at the birth, I was still unconscious from the aesthetic when he left to go for some sleep after the op and he crashed out for over 30 hours with jet lag and I was too ill to even ask for a phone to ring him I now realise ( and have only realised this recently) that this made me stuck for much longer than I should have been as I never actually resolved it, never felt heard even when I complained and did not feel truly listened to. I believe my 'bad birth' experience had extreme affects on my self esteem and feelings of self worth. And I have recently realised that while I know longer have PNI that it is these effects, which are lasting, which has meant that I still have huge self confidence issues. For me it is around the fact I KNEW my child was in distress, I was sure she was in danger of dieing inside me – but I could not protect her and all my strategies of getting what I needed for myself and loved ones failed completely and everything was out of my control. I could go on – as I have only now 15 years later begun really the journey of resolving this stuff – and I am not suggesting that your feelings are anything like mine. But if you think you may have issues around the birth that it might help you I have found this wonderful new site and have already had help from one of the counsellors on their – she did more to help me resolve stuff in one phone call than has happened for me on this issue in 15 years – Anyway the site is www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk/ go to the ‘where to get help’ section and you can talk to them either on the phone or by e mail. This is just a suggestion – I hope you are not offended if it has nothing to do with your situation, but perhaps others reading this will find the link useful anyway. All the best Veritee
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Post by Veritee on Jan 15, 2005 10:46:46 GMT
Hi again AC
I wanted to say that the other things I relate to you on are having migraines, issues around work, and partners, and I certainly relate to what you say about playing with your son.
I found playing with Caja basically excruciatingly boring. I know that this is not how it is meant to be and I certainly loved her but like you I fo8nd even the prospect of washing and ironing more interesting and when I did my duty and played with her - I just could not wait to get away.
I do not know if I would have been like this without PNI - but my feeling is that PNI made it worse but I am not someone who would find playing with a young child interesting in itself although funny enough in the past I had been actually employed to do just that ie playgroups and NCH play sessions for disabled babies and children and the awful thing is that as a job I found the issues around play fascinating - so I therefore felt I had betrayed Caja by not being at all interested in playing with her.
There are women who love playing with their children - I have known a few - but I am not one of them and doubt I ever would be. Perhaps if I had had Caja younger, but I was nearly 40 and had long grown out of wanting to play at all.
Caja grew up spending a lot of time at home on her own - I am sure if this had not happened she would have been a different person but it has not necessarily been negative. She is very self reliant, has developed hobbies and interests to constructively fill her time - music is one of them, she plays both the electric guitar and the keyboards and I am excessively proud of her as it is not something that comes easy fot her and no one else has ever been able to do this, and I actually think that she would not have taken this up if she had not had to entertain herself.
However I did take action also to make sure she did have at least enough play interaction.
I decided if I could not do it myself to make sure she had for at least one part of the day someone - adult or child to play with.
This worked for me and I will not go on about myself here any more but if you are interested I can let you know how I ensured this?
I also feel that we both have a need to be appreciated outside of the home ie in a work environment. When I had PNI because of this I continued to work when I should not have as I needed to cling on to this outside worth.
This was a wrong move on my part as I was bullied because I was not functioning well due to PNI it did pretty much end my career as a youth worker.
However this is a very difficult one – you need to be valued for your skills and knowledge, but because you are ill you are worried about letting your job down if you really can not face if one day or yur performance at work is not up to scratch.
Unfortunately I am again in the same dilemma and not because of PNI – because of my mobility problems.
I need an outside occupation to feel valued and to have that daily interaction with others but I am worried that physically I will let an employer down if I commit to a job.
I am currently considering voluntary work as the temporary solution to this.
I was wondering if this may be something you would consider. Did you ever try the counselling at the college by the way?
The last I heard the person who allocates counsellors was about to contact you, but I do not think you said if you had given it a try?
I would try not to get too despondent though about this, recovery from PNI can be full of ups and downs and can take some years.
– As far as I remember your child will still be under school age ie 2 ish and I am afraid to say this really is not that long in PNI terms. And you are probably someone for whom being a full time mother is not that fulfilling – I know it seems a long time now but things will change massively for you when your child goes to school.
However I am not suggesting you just have to suffer until then, just saying do not get angry or inpatient with yourself - you are doing your best.
In the meantime could you not write down what you feel might help ie fulfilling work, any changes at home that might help, and come on here for support as much as you need to.
All the best
Veritee PS I found the migraines to be entirely hormonal in that the minute I reached menopause the stopped – yet I had had them at least twice a month and they had been disabling from a month before my first period to menopause, with them increasing daily for nearly a year after Caja’s birth going down to 3 times a week for another 2 years.
I had heard there is now some hormone based treatment and I was just about to find out about this when they stopped
I will try to look it up if you like.
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Post by AC on Jan 15, 2005 13:41:04 GMT
Dear Veritee, Thanks for the reply. Reading your birth story again and previously,made me realise that in a way i knew that my son was at risk of dying aswell,i was pushing and pushing for over 5 hours,and they could still only see the top of his head.I was being told to push more and more,and i was in the end pushing for England.But thinking back now this was doing more damage,because when i eventually had the c.section my baby was stuck in the birth canal,which resulted in a further cut to be able to pull him back through,which has left me with an unsightly and longer scar. I had no control whatsoever,with what was happening to me or my baby.An experience that has put me off having any more children....ever. I feel guilty about this aswell,i struggle to play with my son and a brother or sister for him would be great,and because of selfish me,this is not going to happen. I never did see the college counsellor,money is tight with me being on incapacity benefit,and i just wouldnt be able to afford the sessions.You are right my son is 2 and 3 months old,he is an angel,very rarely is naughty and i get many people say to me how good he is.Yet again i find this another guilt factor,he is so good and yet i still find it boring to sit down and play with him,its almost as if i take advantage of his good nature. When i was still working,i had so much job satisfaction that i felt worthwhile,yes,i had somedays where my job pissed me off,but i mostly had good constructive days.Really enjoyed my days off because i felt that i had worked hard and had earnt them,and made the most of my time. Why do i not get the same satisfaction if not more at being a mum ? I differ from you in as much as i used to be really good with young babies and children.Could play for hours with my young nieces and nephews,and people would comment to my family about how good i was with children,So whats happened now !?! Is this all part of the PNI, in a way it has disabled me so much from being who i was or who i am,that to be honest im finding everyday a battle.im not enjoying life at all.
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Post by Veritee on Jan 15, 2005 14:52:24 GMT
Hi Allison
Just popped back in - I only have a minute - but I an glad you got back.
I missed you when you wrote the last post and I always hate it when this happened.
It is so dreadful that you had to endure the problems you had at your birth. It does sound horrible for different reasons than mine. But the common theme for all of us seems to be around lack of control at the birth.
After my birth experience at Treliske I had began to think that this was how all hospital experiences were - but when I had my accident and was in Treliske I was so surprised to find that while I had a bad injury and I was at their ( the hospital staff) mercy, in that I was too ill to walk out as I was with the birth or to demand a second opinion but the department I was treated in at Treliske gave me the utmost respect, listened to me every inch of the way , and I have absolutely no criticism.
I was talking to someone recently, who I will not name but is is qualified to judge - who said that maternity departments may be the last place hospitals may be able to get away with not listening and abusing their patients.! Perhaps you will consider the site I mentioned - the person I talked to was just so clued up - I learnt a lot from her just from one phone call - not just about my own bad birth experience - but also about the subject in general.
Did you do an official complaint to the hospital. I did but it was after the statutory limit which I believe is three years. So if you were to do it, you would have to do it soon!
If I remember rightly their is an ombudsman based in Bodmin, you can go through to make a complaint
- I really feel from your story it may help you to do this I would be willing to meet with you and try to help you do this if this would be useful to you but I would also understand if you do not want to go there!
As to your child - I know that you are not damaging him. You may feel so guilty that you could give him more but I am absolutely certain that you do enough with him - have enough interaction - that he is not suffering and his development will be fine.
In many different ways we all want to do more than we already do for our children, either with time, money, or whatever, but we can only do what we are able to the best of our ability.
When I was ill I by co-incidence someone said something on this that was a great comfort to me.
It may not mean anything to you but here goes.
It was the statement by a very qualified child psychologist, that
'we can not all always do what we would like to do for our children in a perfect world, but we all have strengths and in these areas we do more than we need to - and in others as long as our care isGood Enough It is what it says 'good enough'
In other words you may not play with your child as much as you would like but I am sure their are some areas that you do more than you need to and I am certain that your care of your son is 'good enough' and in some areas more than enough.
I will as usual use my situation as an example. I could not play with Caja much as I have said but the areas I was strong was making sure she had friends i.e. taking her round to others to play, I took her to the beach a lot – there are many children in some areas who have never seen a beach.
I took her walking with my dogs, I know you have dogs too and you cannot underestimate the value of children learning to be with and care for animals.
When she was a toddler when I fed the dogs and cats I got Caja to help from really early on. (This may not seem like playing to us but it really is play to a toddler) and now she does it on her own for us quite often. Also things - OK this is just that I was working and could afford it but she lacked for nothing she wanted. And in any household whatever your income – only children have more than they would do if they had brothers and sisters
In our society we are encouraged to see possessions as shallow, yet our society also functions on what we own and what we have, so I think that the fact your only child can have more than you could give them as one of many - can be turned into a plus for your child .
Despite this I too I felt would have preferred a sibling but actually if I ask her now she says ‘ no way’ actually.
But if did not play with her but I did a lot of educational stuff with her i.e. I taught her how to use the computer so she was competent at around 2 years old - you could do this with your boy i.e. I say Caja on my lap while I was online and let her punch keys when I asked showed her how to use word so she could type stories.
Do you want a computer for your boy - just for him?
I can give you - or anyone else who can pay the carriage to their home - an older computer that has word, office and a few games suitable for 2 to 6 year olds installed - that your child can have for himself and instead of playing with him you could teach him to use the PC.
As you may know already - I get them given to me from businesses for use by people on this web site - so it would not matter if he trashed it? And I could reinstall it if this happened anyhow!
Just an idea - it worked for me.
I also did the house work with Caja - I got her painting the house when I had to do decorating. Gave her a brush and she got on with it and made a total mess - but she had fun, She also helped with stuffing the washing into the machine and pushed the hover - I am sure your boy would enjoy this too .
I am just saying this because if you do not like playing with your child for whatever reason I found there were other ways to spend time with them.
********************************************
But I am worried that my words are not helpful. That I am making it sound easy ie just get your child to help with the housework and everything will be fine!!!!!!!!
I do not mean it like this at all. I did do all these things with Caja but all through my PNI I felt like you really guilty about what I saw to be as a mum - PNI is truly a horrible illness as it undermines even your relationship with your children
I too regret not having another child for Caja but I do absolutely know now that if she had the choice she would not chose to have a sibling because she is old enough to tell me and she has many friends with brothers and sisters and she truly prefers her life exactly as it is.
Ill get back to you later
All the best
Veritee
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Post by AC on Jan 15, 2005 16:23:18 GMT
Dear Veritee, Thanks again.
When i read your reply,it made me realise that i do do the things you mentioned,He does help me with the washing,and also passes me pegs when i put the washing on the line.He loves to help me do the hoovering and i even bought him a miniture version dyson exactly the same as mine,so as soon as i get my dyson out,he gets his out also.
I just feel that i should be doing more,and playing with him 'on his level'.
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Carmen
Senior Member
2 boys - 5 and 23 months - recovered(but still on AD's)
Posts: 484
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Post by Carmen on Jan 15, 2005 22:52:04 GMT
I know I've said it before Alison but you are not alone.
I can totally relate to the playing thing. When Jay was little I played with him without any effort at all. I took him to baby group, then play group, made playdough for him, we cooked together, played in the dirt together, splashed together, played cars, ball, pushed him on the swing, etc etc. I loved being a mum.
It all changed after Kye came along (actually since pregnancy). I am slowly beginning to play with them more and more but it was only a short time ago (and still on days like I'm having today) that I would be exactly the same as you described. I would do anything to get out of spending any time with the kids let alone play with them. Jay has found it very difficult adjusting to this change. He is constantly asking us to play with him to the point I wish I hadnt of played with him so much as he finds it really difficult to amuse himself and is even worse when Kye is having a sleep. Kye on the other hand is used to not being played with as much (besides by his brother) so is really independent and amuses himself very easily. I still feel quite guilty at times when I'm saying "I've got too much work to do at the moment" when really its just I dont feel like playing stupid little pretend games (I know I shouldnt say it like that but it just feels like that when I'm on a bad one)
But if you were I "kid" person before this illness struck I am sure as time goes on you will improve. And I think the most important thing for kids is that you talk to them not neccessarily play with them so that as they grow they will feel comfortable talking to you too. And honestly, there is alot said for an independent child who can amuse themselves. I dont know whether its just Jay's personality or not but I kind of wish I hadnt of played with him so consistently or constantly as I dont think hes ever got out of the habit. But by saying that I had a lot more time then too. I was working part time and he was a good sleeper - sleeping 3 hours during the day - so I had more time to myself.
I hope this helps a little and I havnt rambled on too much.
Take Care Love Carmen
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Post by wendabell on Jan 16, 2005 5:29:05 GMT
playtime.................... i have always struggled with this one myself too and i thought i was alone until i started to read this post...thank you for sharing that...i was too scared to confess that i cant ply with my kids....i mean we are supposed to arnt we ...isnt it supposed to come natural to us. Everything you ladies have said i can relate to.i will clean out the bathroom with a toothbrush rather than make pretend cups of tea with my kids. My eldest wanted for the past week for me to play with her and her wooden dolls house she got for crimbo. i have found a million and one excuses not to and her face gets sadder each time i say i cant...Then last night i spent half an hour playing with her and torin with it .i was the mummy dolly of course....but i found i was playing a reflection of my own life my dolly wasnt playing with the kiddy dollys , she was busy tidying up after the kiddy dollys mess and cooking meals etc and left the kiddy dollys to it. It got me thinking how play therapy must work though....and i had a thought( not too many of them theese days) i am going to play houses again tonight but this time i am going to let my daughter be the mummy dolly and me the kiddy dollys and i want to see how she portrays me . i will get back to you on this one. Effort is the bigest thing for me though, i can sit on a couch for hours and not play not feel i want to play.however after much thought tonight i found that when i sit on the floor at their level and not an adults level i can interact and play more. Bath times i do enjoy because i have all these empty bottles and cups ( junk ) in the bath and all three get in and i love watching the different ways the three ages play in the bath. and of course i have to drink the cups of tea and pretend beer they make for me. why is it that we have a hard time playing with our kids when its so obvious that we love them so much. I do enjoy watching them play though and could quite happily waste a day watching them do just that. Even on days when i do play whether i forse myself to or want to i feel so guilty.guilt guilt guilt all the time every minute i play, every minute i dont i hate it. i am hoping that this is just the pni too and its not the way i am being a mummy because that would be awful. All i want to do is give up work and be a full time mum but why do i want to do that if i cant play with them eh? i try to get my kids involved in things that i do like the cleaning and shopping and we count when we are out and learn letters etc even have a go at cooking with them sometimes but i have to be on an up for that. Reading i enjoy...i love reading books to them from when they were minutes old. i just realised something here folks i do do things with my kids dont i, just never realised it before.but still feel guilty why? Ac my advise to you as a long sufferer like me is to write down what you do with your son each day...including all the boring bits like washing and dressing him. We are their teachers in life..the ones who show them how to clean their teeth properly, what is right and wrong, how to cross a road , how to feed themselves,toilet training etc. we do do so much and it does take a lot of our time up in a day add that up as well and hey not much time left is there. Ive been on a downer for quite sometime and wonder if this is ever going to end some days but i know it will. look at the ones on here that are moving on now because as they say they want to spend time with their familys.....so it must happen one day.....you are a good mum and dont forget it........maybe having some time on your own with him in nursey will let you get some time to do whatever like play catch up with the wash pile...whilst doing that maybe think about what activity you can do with him on his return.i find that sometimes if i plan something and think it through then i find it easier than being spontanious with play...sounds sad but it works for me... just remembe to keep taliking we never get fed up with ranting even repeating ranting. do you know ac that i am shy really....yes i can joke in a crowd and act the fool but i am painfully shy have been all my life.used to go red in the face at the drop of a hat, but found humor was my cure for that. and i think pni has cured me slightly of my shyness. I would never chat to anyone before i came on this site but now look at me . cant stop me talking even if i dont make sense sometimes.I guess i have found the positive to having this illness and you will to one day.it does give you stregnth in other areas . give yourelf time as well, there is no time limit on this illnes as i found out so dont be so hard on yourself .you sound like a great woman and mother who is ill and will get better one day as i will too. i think 5 years is just being greedy now for me keeping this and its time to give it up. anyone else want to join me
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Post by susie on Jan 16, 2005 10:23:15 GMT
Dear Alison,
I am sorry you are feeling so low at the moment, I remember when I started going to counselling for my pni, the place I went to provided a free creche, you had the hour for your counselling plus they liked to encourage mothers to use another hour before or after counselling for themselves, they suggested I go for a coffee (starbucks was nearby!) or go and do a little shopping while the kids were in the creche, the first couple of times I went, I only used my 1 hour, then after a few weeks I had a birthday card to buy for someone, I thought I would drop the kids off and then go shopping for it, all by my myself, I felt guilty for feeling like I wanted to leave the kids,but after I did it I thought that was nice to have ten minutes in the shop by myself, the next week I went to boots and bought a packet of tissues after I dropped them off at the creche, the next week the wonderful woman who ran the creche asked me if I was going for a coffee, I thought why not, so I went to starbucks, had a caramel latte drank it in about 5 minutes and went to counselling, after a few weeks I planned to go for coffee, I didnt have breakfast but got the kids organised and dropped them off them went to starbucks with a magazine and had coffee and a gorgeous strawberry muffin ( now I just want starbucks) but the point is I built up to it, I felt so guilty for wanting time for me, I felt like a bad mother but the strange thing is on the tuesday morning when I was getting them ready I was always so calm, so much more patient, I think because I knew I was going to get one hour just for me, to read a magazine and have me time, what I am trying to say is maybe you have to learn to have you time again, maybe 3 hours is a lot to start with, maybe seems a bit daunting, but I think you should try it, I learnt as much from the hour before counselling as I did from the hour of counselling, I learnt to be me again, not just be mum.
As to the playing, I can see where you are coming from, I think though that you probably do a whole lot more than you realise, I agree with what the others have said. I found after I had J that it helped to set aside 15 minutes for each child and give them 100% of my attention, dont think of houswork, all the other things you should be doing just sit on the floor with them and focus on the child for 15 minutes, sometimes I did plan something even just do a puzzle or something. You dont need to play with him all the time, as Carmen said they often play better when they grow up a bit if they have played by themselves. I think as mothers we feel guilty about most things, guilty if we do, guilty if we dont, guilty if we want to! I had an article from my counsellor about guilt and how it is such a strong emotion it stops mothers from looking past it to the real feelings behind, I must look it out again.
As Jennie said to you before, your son looks very happy in the photo, who says what makes a good mum, you are his mum and you love him like no-one else does. Don't feel bad for moaning on, we are not fed up of you, we are your friends and we want to help you.
take care alison, if you want a chat give me a shout,
Sus x
and Wendy, we will help you fight this off, you are right 5 years is too much for one person, you have come so far though and you will come out of this low again, it sounds to me like you have already started to work out what you are going to do to, let us know how you are doing, I think you are benefiting from posting about yourself a bit more, you seem to work through it as you are typing it.
best wishes to you too
Susie x
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Carmen
Senior Member
2 boys - 5 and 23 months - recovered(but still on AD's)
Posts: 484
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Post by Carmen on Jan 16, 2005 23:19:36 GMT
Sorry to change your thread a little Alison but discussing this has got me thinking probably too much. I've been thinking how much time I have missed with Kye. Its hard for me to remember him as a baby - everything is blurry from back then. Does anyone else feel like this? I do feel guilty that I only remember the crying and sleeplessness. I dont seem to have any happy memories of his first year at all. Even though I know he crawled at 7 months I cant picture it in my head - I only know because I wrote it down. Actually dont even remember when he first walked at 14 months. And even though I dont remember anything it all seems like so long ago that he was born but I remember the birth clearly - just not much in between. Anyone else the same???
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scrumpy
Senior Member
I'm 34 and have a 3 year old daughter
Posts: 297
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Post by scrumpy on Jan 16, 2005 23:29:41 GMT
Carmen, i think i wrote a similar thing in one of my earlier threads. I have no happy memories of erin's first year, just crying and sleepness nights, and feeling angry and guilty. It is all a complete haze, my minds way of getting me through it i suppose.
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jennie
Full member
2 bubs,9 and 4,better though still struggle.
Posts: 59
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Post by jennie on Jan 17, 2005 16:36:37 GMT
I remember my husbund shouting I can't stand it anymore as he had to play "shop" for the 100th time that day! I was thinking of the play thing a lot and I was setting Dylan's wooden trainset out for him and I realisedhow valuable that was to him....
If I play the child(Wendy's dolls house story) then my doll usually acts really naughty so I'm thrown out of the game...
I suppose I'm better at the play thing than the being a grown up....
I love reading to Isabelle,and it's a great opportunity to rediscover all those childhood novels...
Everytime we go for a walk we're going on a bear hunt or playing Dennis the Mennis.
Sorry to go on about me ......
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Post by wendabell on Jan 17, 2005 20:29:08 GMT
carmen..... i think i wrote about that too carmen....the fact that i cant remember much about all my kids as babies and not much since... i think thats why i feel im a bad mum because i cant remember playing much with them even if i did.... Try this carmen....get a book and every time you do remember something no matter how small write it down doesnt have to be much but it does help....also i take photos....as they help you remember soo much....i have albums and albums and now files on the computor and disk with them on....it does help you to remember them how they were. jennie....i played being the girly dolly and i to was destructive and naughty and bryony played the mummy and all she did was shout at my doll?
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